Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Are you talking about Nazis or fascists.

I'm talking about the Nazis who are specifically the people who were members of the German Nationalist Socialist party in the 1920s, 30s and 40s.

I’m talking about my experience of a number of conversations I had with Rudolf Hess whilst I was part of the British Military guard detail at Spandau prison in 1986-87.

So yeah my experience just about covers all of your timelines.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Perhaps this is an EU in out thread - not the world at war - that's on the History channel .......

I think we have established that the two are in danger of becoming intrinsically linked hence the latest plot twist in this thread.

 

[summerisle]

 

[Barnfred 55]

That's not the only reason was it? Creating an 'other' is a way to divide and rule and that is something the British have always been very good at. The Jewish people weren't killed for no other reason than that some guys in the Nazi Party didn't like them, they were killed because they became an easy target for European bigotry, that then lead to them being blamed for everything that was wrong with the country.
For someone so painfully arguing that only Nazis can be Nazis, you know absolutely nothing of what you talk about.

All you have said there is an extension of the fact the Nazis hated them. Why that was I don't know. Had there been the same number of blacks and Asians prevalent in Europe as there is now it could very easily have been those races, or maybe all 3. But it was the hate that led to them being targeted. Make no mistake.

And please feel free to educate me as I know so little. I look forward to it.

 

[Joey66]

I think we have established that the two are in danger of becoming intrinsically linked hence the latest plot twist in this thread.

Yes one stupid MP opens his mouth using a vile word , and people follow like sheep.......even on here........
The Nazis killed not just Jews inferior people they against gypsies, Down syndrome, autism , and Gypsies .....
How can this be linked to Brexit FGS?

 

[dannyboy]

If remainers have any hope in hell of a second referendum then the Brexit Party cannot win this vote. Sadly, I think they´ll win it by an emphatic margin.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So a typo has you confused. Bless. So what is your actual point? You asked who 'their' referred to, I responded and said it was documented. You've gone on a merry ego dance for what reason? You disagree? Great
So what?

My initial point, which you replied to, was that the establishment of a European 'super state' with an army is not 'about as Nazi as it gets'. You instigated the conversation so I see no reason why you've since become confrontational and supercilious towards my replies.

Your typo didn't have me confused, neither did your 'their' - it was simply a question of clarification. However your lack of any credible connection between the 3rd Reich and the current European Union did.

Now I am aware it's well documented that certain corners of the EU want to establish a European Army, but my original point, remains unaddressed, no matter how much you want to recount history and talk of different Facist ideology and pseudo Facist corporations.

All of the evidence I see from Europe is regarding State Nationalism rather than European Nationalism, in fact most of the Facist elements across Europe want to reduce the liberal elements of the Union and effectively reduce their de jure sovereignty away from the EU. Possibly because European Union effectively arose from the shadow of Nazism in Europe, hence the Treaty of Fundamental Rights.

Article 2 might be of interest:

"human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality […], in a society in which pluralism, non-discrimination, tolerance, justice, solidarity and equality between women and men prevail".

Doesn't sound particularly Facistic although I'll agree that centralised authority and one which could be described as a Corporatocracy backed by military power has the potential to be worrying, it doesn't necessarily mean it is Facist (the U.S.A would be the strongest evidence to the contrary).

 

[Barnfred 55]

I’m talking about my experience of a number of conversations I had with Rudolf Hess whilst I was part of the British Military guard detail at Spandau prison in 1986-87.

So yeah my experience just about covers all of your timelines.

Hah. You got me there

Ok I'll go back to your post.

Yes I'll go with the arrogance and sense of superiority. But those traits do not alone make you a Nazi. As a leave supporter in this thread I come across people with those traits on a daily basis but I don't think of any of them as Nazis. It's when you combine those traits with the sadistic evilness to carry out the atrocities, and then add in the total lack of remorse. That's what makes you a Nazi.

When Rees Mogg et al start showing that side to their character I'll agree with you. Even Robinson, total scumbag that he is, isn't a Nazi although he'd probably take it as a compliment if you called him one. He's undoubtedly a fascist and a racist and a grade 1 arse though.

 

[Barnfred 55]

By your rationale every nazi started off as a murderous thug, that just isn't the case. The nazi party developed into a killing machine, it attracted the worst of their society and evolved.

All the very top Nazis were part of it from the very start. They set up their Brown Shirts the same year they changed their name to the Nationalist socialist workers party. They used violence and intimidation from the outset. They maybe didn't start murdering on a large scale until they came into power, but that was only because they could do whatever they wanted then, given that all other political parties had been banned.

They started off evil and grew in power. They didn't evolve as you say.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Yes one stupid MP opens his mouth using a vile word , and people follow like sheep.......even on here........
The Nazis killed not just Jews inferior people they against gypsies, Down syndrome, autism , and Gypsies .....
How can this be linked to Brexit FGS?

I don't think it is. It was addressed specifically at the AfD and Rees-Mogg retweet of them. Lammy called the ERG 'Nazi's' which was clearly done for provocation and was fairly crude.

Personally I think if you start throwing around Nazi accusations at people in that manner it ceases to be effective. I think the issue arises from the fact that Rees-Mogg doesn't distance himself from facists and Nazi's, he courts support of those aligned to them and validates their veiws.

 

[mrb85]

I don't think it is. It was addressed specifically at the AfD and Rees-Mogg retweet of them. Lammy called the ERG 'Nazi's' which was clearly done for provocation and was fairly crude.

Personally I think if you start throwing around Nazi accusations at people in that manner it ceases to be effective. I think the issue arises from the fact that Rees-Mogg doesn't distance himself from facists and Nazi's, he courts support of those aligned to them and validates their veiws.

Can you give examples?

 

[Walken]

I don't think fascism ever went away, business could only watch in awe at how it 'persuaded' peoples to support it or at least acquiesce in its existence.
I think corporatism is fascism, it hides itself in plain sight. It uses propaganda, seeks brand loyalty with bribery and threat, influences the highest reaches of politics, even supplies its own politicians now.
Racism is a consequence of corporatism/fascism as it needs conflict and chaos to be able to play its game.
At every turn there is a shrinking minority controlling the majority, the last thing they would need is a unified and united public.

I'm a little hazy on the subject, but did the US not use several nazi propaganda chiefs to their own ends, post WW2? So impressed they were with how they brouggt the masses to heel

 

[Walken]

So you think Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Hopkins, if they ever got in power, are all capable of ordering and carrying out the cold blooded murder of a whole race of people, for no other reason than they didn't like them. And that is just the headline atrocity.

I'm no fan of the ERG nor some no mark media columnist who nobody had heard of 5 years ago. But they aren't Nazis mate.

Hopkins talks of immigrants as sub human, reesmogg and johnson have also dehumanized people through policy and propaganda. These are seriously twisted individual's and if they could get away with using a common enemy to push their rhetoric or agenda they would. Take a look at their voting record and tell me they have a problem with causing death and suffering in the search for power

 

[Moomin]

Yes one stupid MP opens his mouth using a vile word , and people follow like sheep.......even on here........
The Nazis killed not just Jews inferior people they against gypsies, Down syndrome, autism , and Gypsies .....
How can this be linked to Brexit FGS?

They also killed socialists.

 

[edge]

I'm a little hazy on the subject, but did the US not use several nazi propaganda chiefs to their own ends, post WW2? So impressed they were with how they brouggt the masses to heel

haven't heard of that , They did used a lot of nazi scientists after the war. would be interested if anybody has some info please.
I know that there was one case of Nazi agents using a sympathizer in the congress department to use a free franking machine
to send out loads of Nazi supporting propaganda, so the yanks would have been well placed to see its effects.