Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[mill]

I suppose it depends on where you work and what job you do. In my experience it always ended in arguments over who normally sits where etc.

But if people are hot desking why does it matter? I’ve found the best way to do it is in ‘communities’. You sit where you like in a certain area etc.

 

[havrey0123]

Agree with a lot of that Bruce but would also like to add to it.

You mention this new committee will not have access to some of the material SAGE does, which is fair enough. But what it does have access to is hindsight. My experience of King during this crisis is that he has been very critical of the government and the advice it has been receiving, and I have found myself agreeing with a lot of what he has said. But I've also found some of his comments self serving and made with the benefit of hindsight. If this new committee is there to provide advice and recommendations on dealing with ongoing issues, such as how to manage coming out of lockdown, or ideas on how to manage an control testing and contact tracing, then I support it fully. However my fear is that it will turn into a mini inquest into how the current incumbents have handled the crisis, which given that we're probably not even half way through it will probably do more harm than good. I hope my fears are unwarranted.

I totally agree with you that the government need to be more open and transparent in their handling of this pandemic. Most people are following shutdown instructions but I put this down to fear, rather than any great level of trust in our government. I've long been of the opinion that the level of talent and expertise within our government is poor, both in terms of our MPs and within permanent government. The very best brains are attracted to the private sector, and why wouldn't they given they could earn 7 figure incomes rather than low six figure or even 5 figure when you consider an MPs salary.

The amount of information being given out by SAGE is zilch. As you know, each SAGE committee is set up according to the underlying crisis, and is supposed to comprise the best brains from government, academia and the private sector. I've been trying to find out who comprises this current SAGE committee as I strongly suspect it consists of mainly government people and selected academics. So it was interesting to see your comments on this specific point in your post. Have you seen an actual list of committee members or is it just your opinion that it is filled with government staff that you are expressing as fact. It would be good if you have seen evidence by the way, because it would support my theory, so I'm not trying to trip you up here.

Where I disagree with you is your assumption that the committee would be chosen at ministerial level. They would have the final say for sure, but their decisions would have been based purely on the advice/recommendations from permanent staff.. So I could see the turn of events going like this. Johnson instructing Hancock to set up a SAGE committee to deal with the crisis. Hancock in turn would have asked either the CSO or the CMO to put the arrangements in place and to come up with a list of people to be on the committee. This stinks of government protectionism for me, of keeping things in house. They would not want anybody from the private sector coming in because they would most probably be scared that they would disagree and offer much different advice. Hopefully all of this will come out in a full enquiry in the fullness of time, and on something of this magnitude, the Government will have to publish the findings of the enquiry. The two things I'm most interested in is when, i.e at what stage in the pandemic, did Johnson commit to a SAGE committee being set up. And who drew up the list and what names were on that list?. IMO they were key moments in how this government ended up tackling this crisis.

As regards Patel, yeah I'm not a fan. Her previous role within the foreign office leaves massive question marks over integrity. Like many politicians these days I believe that she is nowhere near talented enough or experienced enough for the high position she currently enjoys, and as you know, even as a Brexiteer, I was far from enamoured by her proposed immigration bill that had more holes in it than a piece of Dutch cheese. But if my concern about this SAGE committee are true, then she was exactly the type of minister we needed in charge on Health, rather than that wimp Hancock. At least she may have stood up to them, questioned some of their advice and, hopefully, insisted on more people being drafted in from the private sector, because quite simply that's were all of the expertise is. The people you want in charge in a crisis are not necessarily those you would want in charge in normal times.

Anyone who read this whole post in one go deserves a medal

 

[PITA]

They don’t focus on advance billings for an advanced state of the company. It’s so they can correctly apportion the costs associated with the respective revenues so that they can correctly calculate profits (and tax etc). Business generally don’t change accounting practices half way through a year either. There is a difference been accruals and cash flow management and this though.

This was to safe face. And so that headline figures look like what was promised. The numbers included tests that were sent, ignoring the fact that a third of the tests sent in the preceding week were returned to the distributor and had not reached their intended target. The figures weren’t adjusted for this. I’m not even going into the fact that the test is highly invasive and would be hard for someone at home to administer correctly.
The latest daily figures show 56k actual tests. 56% of the target.

No doubt Hancock would have had himself tested 50,000 times in one day had he not found another way to 'cook the books'.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Anyone who read this whole post in one go deserves a medal

Aww too long for your little pea brain to comprehend Hav?

 

[davek]

Agree with a lot of that Bruce but would also like to add to it.

You mention this new committee will not have access to some of the material SAGE does, which is fair enough. But what it does have access to is hindsight. My experience of King during this crisis is that he has been very critical of the government and the advice it has been receiving, and I have found myself agreeing with a lot of what he has said. But I've also found some of his comments self serving and made with the benefit of hindsight. If this new committee is there to provide advice and recommendations on dealing with ongoing issues, such as how to manage coming out of lockdown, or ideas on how to manage an control testing and contact tracing, then I support it fully. However my fear is that it will turn into a mini inquest into how the current incumbents have handled the crisis, which given that we're probably not even half way through it will probably do more harm than good. I hope my fears are unwarranted.

You create a false dichotomy.

Why cant their work be both supportive and collegiate AND critique what mistakes have been made before now?

It's just an extension of the argument that "it's not the best time to hold govenment to acount, it's not the right time - the time now is for dealing with the crisis in front of us." Another bogus claim. We can have in tandem an overarching analysis of what's happened since day one AND we can have our eye on the ball in tems of what measures need to happen to squash down the infection rate, get the economy started again etc etc.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Hard to know, i suspect it will be looked into more, its weird that it broke on TV and not in an article of research, maybe that will follow. Some more detail:

The novel coronavirus first appeared in France on December 27, 2019, said Yves Cohen, an intensive care chief from Avicenne Hospital in Paris, in an interview with local media BFMTV on Sunday.

He said his medical team revisited test results of 24 patients with respiratory infections and tested negative for flu and other kinds of coronavirus in December and January, among them a male patient showed positive for COVID-19.

The patient was tested in hospital on December 27, a month before the first French cases were confirmed, Cohen said, adding that the test had been repeated several times to confirm the result.

The patient was sick for 15 days and infected his two children but not his wife who works in a fish stall of a supermarket.

Cohen initially questioned whether the wife had been exposed to fish products from China, but later confirmed that she had only been exposed to fish produced in France.

The expert said the man might be "patient zero".

"But perhaps there are other patients in other regions." he said. "The virus might still be circulating."

Both the man and the children have recovered and are in good health now.

As of Monday, France has reported more than 168,000 COVID-19 cases and 24,898 deaths.

Presumably they are going to test the guy for anitbodies to double confirm the result?

 

[Barnfred 55]

This track and trace app that is supposedly going to be rolled out, do we know if it's going to be optional or compulsory?

From what I understand its optional/advisory. Personally, if they are going to do it I would make it compulsory, and I would organise the roll out through the phone providers. The covid-19 act covered a wide range of emergency powers and I'd be surprised if this sort of arrangement wasn't covered.

I don't actually think this government would exercise those powers as they would be concerned from the political fallout, which I think would be a mistake. If they leave it up to Joe public, many would refuse to upload it as they would be concerned about what else could be reported/recorded, and they wouldnlt get the number required to make it workable.

This could be an invaluable tool in carrying out TTI which is essential if we're to control this virus as we start to unlock the country. I believe It's similar to what they employed in South Korea and we all know how well they have controlled the disease. The ironic thing is, the people who would refuse to upload this app are most likely the same people who are cryarsing about why we can't be as effective as South Korea

 

[Barnfred 55]

I’ve got no problem with the concept of home tests whatsoever.
Just the counting them before they’ve happened.
In my line of work, massaging the numbers in such a way would get my sacked.

Has the government done this? Bit daft if so as it automatically calls into question their integrity. How did they get over the issue of test results? because surely if they say somebody has tested they have to say whether it was negative or positive.

 

[Goat]

From what I understand its optional/advisory. Personally, if they are going to do it I would make it compulsory, and I would organise the roll out through the phone providers. The covid-19 act covered a wide range of emergency powers and I'd be surprised if this sort of arrangement wasn't covered.

I don't actually think this government would exercise those powers as they would be concerned from the political fallout, which I think would be a mistake. If they leave it up to Joe public, many would refuse to upload it as they would be concerned about what else could be reported/recorded, and they wouldnlt get the number required to make it workable.

This could be an invaluable tool in carrying out TTI which is essential if we're to control this virus as we start to unlock the country. I believe It's similar to what they employed in South Korea and we all know how well they have controlled the disease. The ironic thing is, the people who would refuse to upload this app are most likely the same people who are cryarsing about why we can't be as effective as South Korea

I wouldnt use it, as you say with it being optional it would be useless.

The government can track every single person in the country, they could do their job, I aint doing it for them.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You create a false dichotomy.

Why cant their work be both supportive and collegiate AND critique what mistakes have been made before now?

It's just an extension of the argument that "it's not the best time to hold govenment to acount, it's not the right time - the time now is for dealing with the crisis in front of us." Another bogus claim. We can have in tandem an overarching analysis of what's happened since day one AND we can have our eye on the ball in tems of what measures need to happen to squash down the infection rate, get the economy started again etc etc.

I would hope that those such as are on SAGE will be having robust discussions, as they're in possession of the information, and the background, to know what's what. Titheads like Piers Morgan have neither of those things, and nor do any of us on here. I'm just not sure what gives us the belief that we're in any position to critique what these committees recommend?

 

[Walken]

Patel being the minister we needed in charge of health during a crisis is todays hot take, good lord

 

[tsubaki]

I would hope that those such as are on SAGE will be having robust discussions, as they're in possession of the information, and the background, to know what's what. Titheads like Piers Morgan have neither of those things, and nor do any of us on here. I'm just not sure what gives us the belief that we're in any position to critique what these committees recommend?

When government policy is claimed to based on it, it should be critiqued otherwise it’s impossible to determine what the government is doing and why.

I’d say that even if it was a purely scientific body and not one that looks very compromised by Cummings et al.

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[Barnfred 55]

Private retailers have already set up PPE divisions and are busy ordering face coverings from manufacturers suppliers. They will be common place on the high street i would imagine shortly. They will be washable cotton masks in the main, while you've probably seen you can make your own.

Some local councils in other countries (Germany) have given every citizen three non disposable masks to comply with laws.

Very re-assuring.

However these cost money and the ones I've seen so far are quite expensive. If the government are going to make this a partial condition of opening lockdown, such as compulsory whilst shopping or using public transport for instance, then they need to ensure that there is a supply available for everybody, including those who can't afford to buy their own.

I'd like to think that the government are currently taking steps to ensure their supply, and that many UK clothing companies are busy manufacturing them now as we speak. Neither would I be surprised if that were he case. The problem is, this is the sort of thing that the Government never speak about, so people assume they are doing nothing.

 

[LinekersLegs]