Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[tsubaki]

Whilst I agree with the bits about expanding healthcare capacity, I still don’t think herd immunity without a vaccine is a solution. In a country as unhealthy as the US (or in places like Connecticut where 30% of the population is over 60) it will cause just far too many deaths and likely long term health effects as even many of the recovered currently show reduced lung capacity which could be permanent.

Keeping outbreaks down to bare minimum through testing/contact tracing until we have at least a better treatment for the severely ill is the only path I see.

It could have been possible to keep the at-risk people at home though for a lockdown of sorts (with food etc delivered rather than sending them out to shop), whilst everyone else went to work. To do that however they would have had to agree it beforehand, expand the NHS to cope with the surge in numbers and contact trace a lot (which they could have done - just use cops, local health and council workers and firefighters to do it). That would have needed setting up though.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

What you think Corbyn and abbot would of handled it better.
Corbyn would of bought ventilaters for other countries and don't even get me to compare Diane abbot to rishi sunak.

It's a bit more nuanced Corbyn Abbot versus the rest, hence my use of ideology. Rishi Sunak, the practising banker at the time of the financial crash, the gambler now has the credit card...

 

[mahermi1]

No, and we have village facebooks and whatever so we would hear pretty sharpish......

We have a street whatsap group, I took it off, getting on my nerves, my wife still listens to it.

 

[Neiler]

Without a doubt Systems theory is useful in understanding what is going on as indeed is Chaos theory. The Nation was undoubtedly divided and even now that we have a common enemy, those previous divisions are showing themselves as you can see from many of the posts. For me it is a strange concept that a virus generated in China, with a Chinese government hiding its outbreak and lying about the numbers, gets off scot free by those from the left, yet a U.K. PM, himself suffering from the virus, is vilified and called a mass murderer for no other reason than he’s from the wrong party...

I tend to view things systemically mate its perhaps an advantage and a flaw at times. In terms of chaos, i think we have to allow ourselves humility and a degree of helplessness, in the sense that pandemics have been happening for as long as life has been on the planet. This isn't new its just new to us as a modern society.

I dont subscribe, to having to invent an enemy and i dont subscribe to the Chinese being the root of all evil either or necessarily the cause of all this. I think its massively unhelpful and unhealthy, i haven't said much on it here but i dont like it and i dont like that mindset.

I think when people suffer they look for a safe goat, or powers that be try to mitigate failure by causing misdirection or distraction. At the end of the day i think we can forget about borders, nationality, political ideology etc. Its a threat to humanity and we are ultimately all humans. You are as vulnerable as me and im Irish and your English, its irrelevant.

You can close all the wet markets in the world, in another 100 years give or take there will still be another pandemic.

We knew this before any of this began.........

 

[LinekersLegs]

It could have been possible to keep the at-risk people at home though for a lockdown of sorts (with food etc delivered rather than sending them out to shop), whilst everyone else went to work. To do that however they would have had to agree it beforehand, expand the NHS to cope with the surge in numbers and contact trace a lot (which they could have done - just use cops, local health and council workers and firefighters to do it). That would have needed setting up though.

Obesity seems to be an “at risk” factor though - which is very bad news for the US at least

New Adult Obesity Maps

Obesity remains high, varies, by state, and affects some groups more than others.

www.cdc.gov

Map: Overall Obesity
Prevalence† of Self-Reported Obesity Among U.S. Adults by State and Territory, BRFSS, 2018

†Prevalence estimates reflect BRFSS methodological changes started in 2011. These estimates should not be compared to prevalence estimates before 2011.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Yeh and I do think that's fine to point out while also acknowledging right now the focus has to be on saving lives/protecting the NHS etc by following the lockdown.

Absolutely. Once the NHS is overrun the amount of suffering the sick will have to endure doesn't bare thinking about mate. That's what everybody is trying to prevent.

 

[peteblue]

this is a waste of effort, but:

i) no significant orders for ventilators until end of March (thats why we are still sub 10000)
ii) no significant expansion of testing capability (using private labs) until early April
iii) no expansion of NHS staff (retired nurses/doctors etc) until mid March
iv) no expansion of NHS staff testing or arrangements for testing until early April (and no testing of the wider emergency services at all still)
v) no significant acquisition of relevant PPE for the NHS until end of March (with supply problems still being reported) or the other emergency services (please note how few cops in the photos of all this social distancing have a mask)
vi) private hospital capacity not taken over until 20th March
vii) no extra NHS hospital space (ie: Nightingale) started until 21st March
(edit) viii) no extra mortuary spaces arranged until end of March / early April

All of that could have been done in January or February (at the latest). It wasn't.

Considering that the first reported death in China didn’t take place until Jan 11th, and that the first recorded case outside of China wasn’t until Jan 20th and that the WHO didn’t declare ‘a public health emergency of international concern’ until Jan 30th, the first death outside of China on Feb 2nd and the first death in Europe on Feb 14th and the first outbreak in Italy on Feb 23rd, you must have marvellous foresight or 20:20 hindsight. Being clever after the event can be done by all.....

 

[spectateur]

Without a doubt Systems theory is useful in understanding what is going on as indeed is Chaos theory. The Nation was undoubtedly divided and even now that we have a common enemy, those previous divisions are showing themselves as you can see from many of the posts. For me it is a strange concept that a virus generated in China, with a Chinese government hiding its outbreak and lying about the numbers, gets off scot free by those from the left, yet a U.K. PM, himself suffering from the virus, is vilified and called a mass murderer for no other reason than he’s from the wrong party...

No, he's just a useless idiot.

 

[xena]

I am showing empathy... I think you've jumped into the discussion too far down the line yet again.

Sorry mate i don't think you do show much empathy for them .I may be wrong but you seem to come across as im all right Jack you'll get your £2500 a month furloughed money as long as it lasts and more importantly have a job to go back to.I my self should be ok but worried like hell for my kids who have rent and mortgages and there own kids to provide for and don't know if they'll have jobs to back to .

 

[mahermi1]

Could be because of weekend reporting but hopeful Spain may be improving from their awful outbreak.

Is that just over three weeks before a positive pattern is beginning to emerge.?

 

[peteblue]

I tend to view things systemically mate its perhaps an advantage and a flaw at times. In terms of chaos, i think we have to allow ourselves humility and a degree of helplessness, in the sense that pandemics have been happening for as long as life has been on the planet. This isn't new its just new to us as a modern society.

I dont subscribe, to having to invent an enemy and i dont subscribe to the Chinese being the root of all evil either or necessarily the cause of all this. I think its massively unhelpful and unhealthy, i haven't said much on it here but i dont like it and i dont like that mindset.

I think when people suffer they look for a safe goat, or powers that be try to mitigate failure by causing misdirection or distraction. At the end of the day i think we can forget about borders, nationality, political ideology etc. Its a threat to humanity and we are ultimately all humans. You are as vulnerable as me and im Irish and your English, its irrelevant.

You can close all the wet markets in the world, in another 100 give or take there will still be another pandemic.

We knew this before any of this began.........

Of course these things will come about, but countries sign up to immediately inform others of outbreaks, which I don’t believe has happened here, hence my criticism. Preparing for a pandemic has been back burner stuff for a long time, I suppose if nothing else there can be no excuses for the future.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I do feel sorry for people living in big cities Bruce, many of whom don't even have any garden space. There's more people than space, whereas down here there's more space than people.

People down here are sticking to the rules. Me and the missus go out for a walk every other day, and we make it a 3/4 mile walk. Our village is pretty sparse anyway, but once we are out in the countryside we hardly see a soul for 2 hours or more. We quite often end up on some rocky beach, accessed only from the coastal path, and we are invariably the only ones on it. Yesterday we walked down to what is normally a very popular sandy beach, and half expected to have to bypass it because it was a lovely day and thought there may be too many people on it. But it was practically empty. One lady walking her dog and an older couple of psychos going for their daily swim in the sea. Cars normally park on this beach, but the entrance was blocked off so maybe that had something to do with it.

I should reiterate that it's not everywhere. The park nearest to me in Elephant & Castle usually has a tonne of stuff going on, from fishing and cricket to football and park runs, with various playgrounds, outdoor gyms, tennis courts and all that very heavily used. The wife and I have been there a few times this week for a walk and there haven't been any people sat around sunbathing, or gathering in groups, just going for a (solo) jog or walk. The most people I saw together was a guy with his two young kids having a cycle around. Obviously that's just an anecdote and people could have been prats the rest of the time, but it's largely been the same at the smaller parks round the corner from our house. Much quieter than usual, and people walking dogs etc. and not gathering in groups just lolling about.

 

[roydo]

Considering that the first reported death in China didn’t take place until Jan 11th, and that the first recorded case outside of China wasn’t until Jan 20th and that the WHO didn’t declare ‘a public health emergency of international concern’ until Jan 30th, the first death outside of China on Feb 2nd and the first death in Europe on Feb 14th and the first outbreak in Italy on Feb 23rd, you must have marvellous foresight or 20:20 hindsight. Being clever after the event can be done by all.....

I was a bit confused by this as well. I checked the date just now, and I bought Mrs R home from hospital on 13th Feb. It wasnt even a subject of conversation with the nursing staff iirc.

That said, with hindsight, they were seemingly trying to free up beds on the respiratory ward, as in there were quite a few ready to be discharged. Didnt give it a moments thought at the time, cos, like I said, it wasnt front page news, and there was certainly no sense of a step up in activity.

 

[canuckblue]

Don't have to worry about anyone sunbathing around my town today. It's only 2C.

 

[Nymzee]

Sorry mate i don't think you do show much empathy for them .I may be wrong but you seem to come across as im all right Jack you'll get your £2500 a month furloughed money as long as it lasts and more importantly have a job to go back to.I my self should be ok but worried like hell for my kids who have rent and mortgages and there own kids to provide for and don't know if they'll have jobs to back to .

I haven't been furloughed.

I also have rent to pay, utilities to pay, car loan to pay, phone bill to pay...