Big Club

[BoysInBlue]

Don't really see the point in an Evertonian making an argument for why Everton aren't a big club on an Everton fans forum.

There's enough non-Evertonians in the outside world and media that can spout that drivel, we don't need our own fans doing it. There's nothing to be achieved from such a navel-gazing exercise masquerading as a 'debate', as it will simply turn into a Bill Kenwright & board-bashing thread. Thats not defending them either, that's just stating a fact.

We are the 4th most successful club in England in terms of league titles won. For the first 110 years of our 135 year existence, we were the 2nd most successful club in England.

We have one of the biggest fanbases in England.

We are handicapped by our historic stadium and lack of finances.

We have one of the brightest young managers in Europe and a vibrant group of hugely talented international players that are forever the target of our fellow big clubs.

A very rich person buying a football club does not make that club a big club. It makes that club successful and glamourous, but it doesn't change the soul or the history of the club's past. Blackburn won the Premier League because they were very rich. Now they are not and are in the Championship. A billionaire bought Chelsea and they went from being a top 6 team to a regular CL team. Man City were a mid-table club that had a long history of relegations and promotions across 3 divisions, until a Sheik bought them and they won a few trophies.

Everton has a long track record of winning trophies throughout its 135 year history; unfortunately we've won nothing over a turbulent last 18 years. We've been close once or twice though.

 

[Quim]

I think the term "big club" is a misused word in these days.

There are many group of clubs:

Biggest clubs: Manchester United and Liverpool
Big clubs: Arsenal, Chelsea
Big-ish clubs: Spurs and Manchester City
Sleeping giants: Everton, Aston Villa, Newcastle




I think Sky Sports has led people to believe that mate. Leeds are a bigger club then Newcastle and Chelsea I my eyes. 10 years can't establish you as a big club. There are 6 big clubs in England to me, Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Villa, Everton and Tottenham. Followed by the likes of Leeds and City. Newcastle and Chelsea are still with your Sunderlands, forests, Sheffield Weds, West Hams I think.

 

[DevineEFC]

in what way are we "up there"? with manure and RS

Would of suggested the history like.. we come closest in terms of League titles yeno & I included Arsenal in there too.

 

[Blue Bill]

I still think people always say "Chelsea are still small" "they weren't good until Abramovich" but they have won so much they have to be recognized as big, and before Roman they were still a decent cup team.

 

[Quim]

in what way are we "up there"? with manure and RS

Footballs been played for 135 years in this country mate not twenty. Before the Premier League began we had 9 league titles to Utds 7. That in my opinion is why.

 

[emb]

There are no big clubs, only Everton.

Likewise if you're a Tranmere fan, the only club that matters is Tranmere.

Anything else is just willy-waving.

 

[barneygumble]

For me a big club is both trophies and supporters.

United are the biggest team in England in terms of success, and arguably support, but if they do end up dropping off here, lets see how 'loyal' their fans are.

I'd probably say Liverpool are the biggest club after, as to be fair to them, they've clearly had a baron run without a league title like us, even though they've had success in that time, their fans however delusional have been excellent in this country for the last 10 years at least.

Arsenal are 3rd biggest, big fan base, big success.

I'd argue currently Chelsea are bigger than us due to their current success over the last decade, but as a whole their fanbase isn't anywhere near ours in the fact that it was only 20 years ago they were getting 10,000 at the Bridge.

Then i'd have Everton, big club, very good support, great history, and respected across the country. Even though we've been more successful, i'd put us on par with Spurs in the fact that we've both got good support and a grand history, maybe others will disagree.

I'd say Newcastle, Leeds, Aston Villa would be the next category, even though Leeds have been out of the Premier league for 10 years now.

Notts Forest, Sheffield Weds are also big clubs, and will undoubtedly eventually come back.

As for City, I don't know how to assess. Big Club in the older days, proud history, good fans, but yo-yo'd for the last 20, but are now the richest in the world. Overall, i wouldn't class them as bigger than us over their entire history, but in current days, they have to be, due to money and comparable success.

So

Overall
-------
United
Liverpool
Arsenal
Everton/Spur/Chelsea
City/Villa/Leeds/Newcastle
Sheff Wed/Notts Forest

Current
--------
United
City/Chelsea
Arsenal
Liverpool
Spurs/Everton

 

[Quim]

I always think big clubs can be determined by away support and only utd, lpool and Everton sell out every away in this country

 

[SpeedEFC]

For the media I think how big a club is is determined by how keen players would be to play for them, this is why they always seem so quick to declare the likes of Chelsea and City big clubs because they can throw money at players to make them join.

For me though I reckon a club's status is determined by loads of factors but the most important ones are economic power (this includes the casual fanbase), size and passion of matchgoing fanbase, trophies won, current state of the team and managerial staff and the history of a club. Back in the day economic power and size of matchgoing fanbase were pretty much the same thing which is why you tended to see the older more established clubs winning stuff most of the time, when the premier league came along though that changed and economic power started to separate from that to the point where a billionaire owner pretty much means you're a big club in the eyes of the media after a season or two. Everton are a big club even though these days we're lacking in economic power we make up for that by having a good team with a great manager, great history and one of the best followings in English football. The best description of us at the moment would be sleeping giants if you had to justify why we are a big club.

For what it's worth I reckon Man Utd is the biggest club in the country at the moment, Liverpool 2nd and Arsenal 3rd. We're 4th biggest since we've got more trophies than Spurs, Villa and Newcastle and more history than Chelsea.

 

[Brennan]

I always think big clubs can be determined by away support and only utd, lpool and Everton sell out every away in this country

You sure about that ?

 

[mckenziemagic]

In terms of pedigree (Founder member of the football league, most seasons in the top flight, honours won to date) we are up there with the best of them.

The media of today treats football for what it is - big business. "Big Club" as used by the media of today relates to the turnover of the club. Which currently puts Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool,Tottenham, and Newcastle above us in the Premiership. But according to Deloitte (2012) we are 26th biggest club in Europe, behind the likes of Stuttgart, Ajax, Lyon, Marseille.

 

[Blue Bill]

if RAWK sees this thread we're ****ed

*activates cloaking device*

 

[Pat's Van]

There are no big clubs, only Everton.

Likewise if you're a Tranmere fan, the only club that matters is Tranmere.

Anything else is just willy-waving.

just tell me when champ

 

[heatmeiser]

just tell me when champ

That caught my eye too, I've been on meatspin ever since.

 

[SteKelly]

I always think big clubs can be determined by away support and only utd, lpool and Everton sell out every away in this country

Arsenal as well