Would we have gone down without Allardyce

[PeregrineT]

Bet you were thinking that watching the Swansea game,we looked in a division above them didn't we.

Thank you for proving my point. I was thinking "look how bad we are and they still cant win, at home".

THATS why we had no chance of being relegated. We play like trash, away, and still teams dont beat us.

 

[gonetomorrow]

We might have still been in ninth today but after having played more entertainingly.

We might also have had the benefit of a proper leftback for all those matches.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Thank you for proving my point. I was thinking "look how bad we are and they still cant win, at home".

THATS why we had no chance of being relegated. We play like trash, away, and still teams dont beat us.

We had a lot of luck away from home this season, DCL pen, Newcastle hit the woodwork 3 times, Charlie Adam getting sent off

 

[kenada_blue]

I’m not saying it was always fine. Christ, it’s not even fine now.

The facts suggest you’re wrong though. Our points per game ratio and our home record prior to the change both suggest that we would have stayed up regardless. The only reason anyone could ever have for thinking we were going down this season was a ‘gut feeling’ or the old ‘Everton that’ mentality of assuming the worst.

It was a possibility yes, but always a remote one. Pretty much the same as us finishing 6th, hence us being equidistant between the 2.

We had won 4 in 15 in the league and had the worst defence, shipping in an average of 2 goals a game.

We'd played 23 games in all comps. Won 6. Lost 12. Drew 5. If losing 52% of your games up until that point having spent £300million and not changed, it would have put us in a dangerous position for the rest of the season.

Again, the miracle of the West Ham game skews slot of opinions to thinking that we would be "okay" even if the chuckle brothers took over.

All I can recall vividly is the Southampton game, a side who struggled to score until that point, smashing us, leaving Unsworth looking like a lost puppy, and me feeling very scared.

 

[Lanolin]

We had won 4 in 15 in the league and had the worst defence, shipping in an average of 2 goals a game.

We'd played 23 games in all comps. Won 6. Lost 12. Drew 5. If losing 52% of your games up until that point having spent £300million and not changed, it would have put us in a dangerous position for the rest of the season.

Again, the miracle of the West Ham game skews slot of opinions to thinking that we would be "okay" even if the chuckle brothers took over.

All I can recall vividly is the Southampton game, a side who struggled to score until that point, smashing us, leaving Unsworth looking like a lost puppy, and me feeling very scared.

And the Southampton game skews things just as much, because people remember watching it and panicking that we were the absolute pits. Those games happen to mid table sides though, Newcastle lost 3-0 at home to Watford, Leicester lost 3-0 at home to palace, It’s not the evidence of hitting rock bottom that many people paint it as.

Again, i’m Not saying anyone who ever doubted we’d stay up was a bed wetting idiot, far from it. I’d be lying if I said the thought of it had never crossed my mind when things were bad, but as I said, it was never any more than a remote possibility.

The post you’re replying to comes from me saying that you can’t say people were ridiculous to be confident we would get out of it because it’s actually happened. I was saying to you in November that I didn’t believe we’d be in trouble because we’d win the majority of our home games. As it turns out, I was right to feel that way, but now people want to tell me I was wrong, despite it actually having happened. You couldn’t make it up.

 

[billyblue80]

Not but he may have been a bit more squeaky at times.

 

[MACCA75]

Merson btw.. he went on for about 5 minutes the other week how amazing it was Burnley could be doing so well given their ground holds 12 thousand. Repeated it about 5 times. Nobody had the heart to tell him their ground is twice that size.

In short, he talks garbage.

 

[roydo]

Its the wrong question, with respect to the OP.

Were we in serious danger of being involved in the unthinkable after Southampton?

Me? Sure we were.

Whether is was Sam, Unsy, or some random other manager who sorted it, is immaterial. The club hired a bloke who has proven he can halt a slide. He did.

Hopefully the same club will now hire a bloke who has proven he take a team forward, cos Red Adair wont.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Its the wrong question, with respect to the OP.

Were we in serious danger of being involved in the unthinkable after Southampton?

Me? Sure we were.

Whether is was Sam, Unsy, or some random other manager who sorted it, is immaterial. The club hired a bloke who has proven he can halt a slide. He did.

Hopefully the same club will now hire a bloke who has proven he take a team forward, cos Red Adair wont.

I think we have to view it in these terms realistically.

The board wanted Allardyce because they feared relegation and many were of the same opinion. They hired Allardyce to avoid relegation and he has done it. The worrying thing for me, and the reason he has to go, is avoiding relegation is the only ambition he has set himself all season. In his mind, the minimum supporters expect of him is worthy of an '11'.

The board thought we were sinking and got a lifeboat. The thing is, once you're safe, you don't stay on the lifeboat, they don't you far, you get out and back on a ship.

 

[roydo]

I think we have to view it in these terms realistically.

The board wanted Allardyce because they feared relegation and many were of the same opinion. They hired Allardyce to avoid relegation and he has done it. The worrying thing for me, and the reason he has to go, is avoiding relegation is the only ambition he has set himself all season. In his mind, the minimum supporters expect of him is worthy of an '11'.

The board thought we were sinking and got a lifeboat. The thing is, once you're safe, you don't stay on the lifeboat, they don't you far, you get out and back on a ship.

Yep.

I have said it many times, he did what he was hired to do.

If the board, god forbid, retain him, but with a mandate to target top 6, and/or a pot, it would be interesting to see if he could deliver either.

Personally, I think his DNA is 40 points. Thats fine. But not for Everton.

 

[kenada_blue]

And the Southampton game skews things just as much, because people remember watching it and panicking that we were the absolute pits. Those games happen to mid table sides though, Newcastle lost 3-0 at home to Watford, Leicester lost 3-0 at home to palace, It’s not the evidence of hitting rock bottom that many people paint it as.

Again, i’m Not saying anyone who ever doubted we’d stay up was a bed wetting idiot, far from it. I’d be lying if I said the thought of it had never crossed my mind when things were bad, but as I said, it was never any more than a remote possibility.

The post you’re replying to comes from me saying that you can’t say people were ridiculous to be confident we would get out of it because it’s actually happened. I was saying to you in November that I didn’t believe we’d be in trouble because we’d win the majority of our home games. As it turns out, I was right to feel that way, but now people want to tell me I was wrong, despite it actually having happened. You couldn’t make it up.

No one saying you're wrong either. You believed we'd be okay due to our home record. But you stated it as facts when in reality they aren't. The belief we'd be fine due to our home games holds as much credence as someone worried we wouldn't.

No issue with you not being overly worried. I think a large number were as were the people who run the club.

As for the Southampton game skewing opinions like the west ham one. One game was an anomaly to the season the other game happened more often.

 

[kenada_blue]

Its the wrong question, with respect to the OP.

Were we in serious danger of being involved in the unthinkable after Southampton?

Me? Sure we were.

Whether is was Sam, Unsy, or some random other manager who sorted it, is immaterial. The club hired a bloke who has proven he can halt a slide. He did.

Hopefully the same club will now hire a bloke who has proven he take a team forward, cos Red Adair wont.

The two clubs that didn't get someone in who could guarantee to stop that slide....are West Brom with Pardew and Saints with Hughes (who looks like he could sink two clubs in one season).

Palace got Hodgeson. Don't it before. West H got Moyes. Solid option. Swansea gambled and it paid off.

 

[Lanolin]

No one saying you're wrong either. You believed we'd be okay due to our home record. But you stated it as facts when in reality they aren't. The belief we'd be fine due to our home games holds as much credence as someone worried we wouldn't.

No issue with you not being overly worried. I think a large number were as were the people who run the club.

As for the Southampton game skewing opinions like the west ham one. One game was an anomaly to the season the other game happened more often.

The Southampton game is just as much of an anomaly in that it’s the only time we were soundly beaten like that by a team below us, that’s why it sticks ‘vividly’ in your mind, because it was a one off.

Also an opinion based on a feeling does not hold as much credence as an opinion based on facts.

I didn’t know that our home form would stay good, but the fact we’d already won all 4 home games against sides below us made it a very reasonable hypothesis. Suggesting that our home form would get worse was certainly not beyond the realms of possibility, but it wasn’t supported by any actual evidence at all. We hadn’t even dropped a point against the teams below us, there was no reason to believe we would suddenly start losing.

That’s what I think you’re struggling to grasp, i’m Not presenting something as a fact like you suggest, i’m Saying my view was based on facts. It’s an important distinction.

 

[toffee66]

Pretty much our entire ‘improvement’ after that oh so brief initial bounce (for which Sam gets some credit) was from signing Walcott/Tosun and the phased return from injury of Jags/Coleman/Baines. Stats suggest we have gained more points than deserved on possession, shots etc. since 1/1/18. That is luck not managerial genius. I don’t think we’ve improved in a sustained way at all under Sam in any aspect that you could point at as deriving from organisation or coaching (set pieces still suck etc.). Could it have been worse? Maybe. Does he deserve any praise? No.

 

[davids]

Thank you for proving my point. I was thinking "look how bad we are and they still cant win, at home".

THATS why we had no chance of being relegated. We play like trash, away, and still teams dont beat us.

Thank you for proving my point. I was thinking "look how bad we are and they still cant win, at home".

THATS why we had no chance of being relegated. We play like trash, away, and still teams dont beat us.

But they had beaten Arsenal the rs Burnley and Man U before we played them.