Would we have gone down without Allardyce

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The Southampton game is just as much of an anomaly in that it’s the only time we were soundly beaten like that by a team below us, that’s why it sticks ‘vividly’ in your mind, because it was a one off.

Also an opinion based on a feeling does not hold as much credence as an opinion based on facts.

I didn’t know that our home form would stay good, but the fact we’d already won all 4 home games against sides below us made it a very reasonable hypothesis. Suggesting that our home form would get worse was certainly not beyond the realms of possibility, but it wasn’t supported by any actual evidence at all. We hadn’t even dropped a point against the teams below us, there was no reason to believe we would suddenly start losing.

That’s what I think you’re struggling to grasp, i’m Not presenting something as a fact like you suggest, i’m Saying my view was based on facts. It’s an important distinction.

Again that's a different take. We'd just been roundly beaten by Italian minnows Atalanta, Arsenal, Leicester, Lyon, Spurs, United etc by 2, 3, 4 goals. We also shipped in goals against Watford and Palace too.

It wasn't a case of a one off game against a team below us, it was the self capitulation of the side that happened leading up to the West Ham game, and continued to happen in blips throughout the season that needed fixing which worried people.

But I do grasp what you're saying.
 
We had won 4 in 15 in the league and had the worst defence, shipping in an average of 2 goals a game.

We'd played 23 games in all comps. Won 6. Lost 12. Drew 5. If losing 52% of your games up until that point having spent £300million and not changed, it would have put us in a dangerous position for the rest of the season.

Again, the miracle of the West Ham game skews slot of opinions to thinking that we would be "okay" even if the chuckle brothers took over.

All I can recall vividly is the Southampton game, a side who struggled to score until that point, smashing us, leaving Unsworth looking like a lost puppy, and me feeling very scared.
We won 7 in 20 games under Allardyce, yeah not great
 
The Southampton game is just as much of an anomaly in that it’s the only time we were soundly beaten like that by a team below us, that’s why it sticks ‘vividly’ in your mind, because it was a one off.

Also an opinion based on a feeling does not hold as much credence as an opinion based on facts.

I didn’t know that our home form would stay good, but the fact we’d already won all 4 home games against sides below us made it a very reasonable hypothesis. Suggesting that our home form would get worse was certainly not beyond the realms of possibility, but it wasn’t supported by any actual evidence at all. We hadn’t even dropped a point against the teams below us, there was no reason to believe we would suddenly start losing.

That’s what I think you’re struggling to grasp, i’m Not presenting something as a fact like you suggest, i’m Saying my view was based on facts. It’s an important distinction.
Don't think we have a great record at Southampton, i remember losing 2-0 an both where own goals.

The problem was we paniced and because our season started in July it felt like February when we appointed Sam, the board messed about for 5 weeks to find a new manager, Watford took 15 minutes, We still had 24 games to go, so being relegated was unlikely, i was worried about relegation after that game, soon as we beat West Ham i knew we wouldn't.
I have worried about being relegated again his season but that was because of Allardyce
 
The players had given up before Sam was appointed. They don’t care about the club, just content to call it in and claim the wage.

He did initially generate points but I think any new manager would have had the same impact. His very presence in the stand made our ‘heroes’ up their game for fear of leaving the gravy train.

No endorsement of Allardyce at all but the Southampton game convinced me that we were going down unless something changed.
 
Regardless how bad we have been this year, and I know we have been bad. Would we have been relegated? Simple answer is no.

I say this because we have Goodison Park, home of Everton FC. As much as we think our home is quiet, even toxic in some games, I hear my old mates saying it's not like it was against Bayern, Fiorentina, or any other memorable game under the lights.
I agree...but

But, Goodison comes with a health warning for some sides - it causes a lot of teams problems before a ball is kicked. Bournemouth folded, West Ham fell apart after the pen miss, Huddersfield froze, Watford did a miracle of Crystanbul, Swansea did the usual at Goodison. Picked up cheap points elsewhere too at home - and took some beatings - Arsenal & Spurs were embarrassing- Utd & Chelsea not what we are about either. I’m

We used to give the top six a right go, 60 grand used to do keepy ups, the Belgian kerb played on the wing to mix it up, the kidda with the Pot Noodle Barnet did one two’s before slotting in the Geladys, the forgotten one celebrated before slotting into an empty net. Goodison is one hard place to come too....at times we forget this and offer up this advantage too easily.

Koeman with his Barcelona badges on Bentley number plates showed our investment in his ability was misplaced. He was as poor the previous year but a late run post watford saved his fat head. I blame him for so much this year, others take a slice, but that Blonde Beaut was seriously bad. He had to go. But we had no plan B. Koeman should have gone way before Arsenal, Chelsea away was bad, Spurs at home criminal, Utd away shambolic. Can’t remember but Brighton away was unfair on them for the point, not forgetting the embarrassing effort in Europe that saw us embarrassed in Italy & France. Koeman’s reign is too easily overlooked because of gravy & his wardrobe shaped head, but he quickly dismantled any coherent football we once had.

So, would we have been relegated? Absolutely not. Having no plan post Moonhead was ridiculous, felt for Unsworth - players knew he wasn’t long term - then we got the Smirking Bloater. It is what it is. He’ll go.

Early doors we were a mess, Spurs destroyed us, Arsenal played as bad an everton team I’ve seen in a long time, Burnley did a number on us. The rot was there with Moonhead, he had no interest in Everton. Players saw that...Board then acted. Poor choice in Gravy but whoever managed us, would have seen us safe. Each to their own I reckon on this!
 
People keep mentioning the Southampton game, but rewind and remember that the club was in turmoil because no appointment was made for a month. The uncertainty contributed massively to the result.

Europa League aside (and I know what that was a massive contributory factor in Koeman leaving) looking at the results he achieved in the league against the same teams as Allardyce, Koeman was actually a point better off (and it was a horrendous run of opening fixtures). Is that not enough for the sack then?

In hindsight, if we weren't in the Europa League; (and so purely from a league form perspective) Koeman was basically sacked for drawing at Brighton and the Burnley and Arsenal league results (and from what I remember we should have won the Burnley game). Forget Spurs, United and Chelsea. They were always going to be tough asks.

So all things considered, I reckon we'd have probably been as well off with Koeman still in charge and Sam hasn't done anything spectacular. Controversial I know!

Screenshot_20180420-220851.webp
 
I don't believe Koeman would have taken us down. Don't get me wrong, I wanted him out in November, but playing five of the top six sides within his first ten league games this season, coupled with the competitive season starting in July, and a tough Europa League campaign (and drawing two tough opponents in Atalanta and Lyon) he was always up against it.

Ultimately, Koeman paid the price for a shambles of a summer transfer window, and a woefully imbalanced squad, more than anything else.

In the five months Allardyce has been here, results-wise I don't think he has achieved any more than what any other mediocre PL manager could have done, and style-wise, it's just plain embarrassing.
 
No, because there are teams in the league who are just that bad. I think we might be in the bottom half but we would have survived somehow.
 
I was seriously worried at the time but looking now I don’t think we would have. There are so many bad teams this season.
 
maybe

i think whoever would have been appointed could probably done the same job so don't think it was all down to Sam

obviously couldn't continue with RK and Unsworth was out of his depth
 
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