Current Affairs Ukraine

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Was it, though?

I mean, that is what our media and politicians keep saying but the Russians have repeatedly been saying that this is about dismantling the unipolar system that existed after 1989.

I think there is every chance they'll do that, given the effects of this war on the rest of the world - increased food / fertilizer prices, increased energy prices, increased transportation costs - basically, we are creating a global problem that only Russia can fix.

When you add that to the short-sighted idiocy that is failing to do anything meaningful about climate change (in terms of help for the countries suffering now or reigning ourselves in), the diplomatic effort Russia and China have been putting in for years and failing to help with vaccines and medicine costs (for which now allowing generic COVID vaccines is the most stupid) then there is no reason to think they've "lost".
I’d say yes it was the reason for military action in Ukraine.

Russia watched while NATO/US deployed anti-ballistic missile systems in Poland, Romania and Slovakia effectively giving the west a “perceived” advantage in the nuclear death race.

It was horrified that Ukraine was cozying upto the EU and NATO as it could see western forces and bases being established in the Ukraine and limiting Russias control over the Black Sea region.

Russia can have its place back at the world table and yes we do need Russia and it’s resources but they have to learn to play nice.
 
Was it, though?

I mean, that is what our media and politicians keep saying but the Russians have repeatedly been saying that this is about dismantling the unipolar system that existed after 1989.

I think there is every chance they'll do that, given the effects of this war on the rest of the world - increased food / fertilizer prices, increased energy prices, increased transportation costs - basically, we are creating a global problem that only Russia can fix.

When you add that to the short-sighted idiocy that is failing to do anything meaningful about climate change (in terms of help for the countries suffering now or reigning ourselves in), the diplomatic effort Russia and China have been putting in for years and failing to help with vaccines and medicine costs (for which now allowing generic COVID vaccines is the most stupid) then there is no reason to think they've "lost".

You’ve lost it. Climate change, really, Covid, I seem to remember you being the biggest champion of track and trace the biggest waste of money undertaken. You have managed to be on the wrong side of every argument, even having a go at Boris for going to Ukraine today. So please do not tell us how great Russia and China are. Russia is getting its arse kicked…..
 
So let me get this straight. Boris decided to pull out of an important meeting in Doncaster concerning domestic issues and decided to fly to Kyiv instead to meet with Zelensky concerning matters that have no impact on the British people? The British people need to vote this clown out of office as soon as possible.

You are a prat. There is a war going on in Ukraine and our PM is doing his bit to support it. But you would rather he went to Doncaster…ffs…..
 
Have you actually twigged yet that defeating Russia militarily - never mind "absolutely batter" - might not actually be possible?

So let me get this straight. Boris decided to pull out of an important meeting in Doncaster concerning domestic issues and decided to fly to Kyiv instead to meet with Zelensky concerning matters that have no impact on the British people? The British people need to vote this clown out of office as soon as possible.

Was it, though?

I mean, that is what our media and politicians keep saying but the Russians have repeatedly been saying that this is about dismantling the unipolar system that existed after 1989.

I think there is every chance they'll do that, given the effects of this war on the rest of the world - increased food / fertilizer prices, increased energy prices, increased transportation costs - basically, we are creating a global problem that only Russia can fix.

When you add that to the short-sighted idiocy that is failing to do anything meaningful about climate change (in terms of help for the countries suffering now or reigning ourselves in), the diplomatic effort Russia and China have been putting in for years and failing to help with vaccines and medicine costs (for which now allowing generic COVID vaccines is the most stupid) then there is no reason to think they've "lost".

I tell you what guys, one day when you get up off your knees and grow a pair, you might actually understand why our fathers or grandfathers fought a war…if ever there was an example of kids being spoilt through the efforts of others then you have proven it…bravo…..
 
I tell you what guys, one day when you get up off your knees and grow a pair, you might actually understand why our fathers or grandfathers fought a war…if ever there was an example of kids being spoilt through the efforts of others then you have proven it…bravo…..
LOL

Bringing up World Wars cos Boris has pissed off on a jolly while the country burns, classic Pete.
 
I tell you what guys, one day when you get up off your knees and grow a pair, you might actually understand why our fathers or grandfathers fought a war…if ever there was an example of kids being spoilt through the efforts of others then you have proven it…bravo…..
 
You’ve lost it. Climate change, really, Covid, I seem to remember you being the biggest champion of track and trace the biggest waste of money undertaken. You have managed to be on the wrong side of every argument, even having a go at Boris for going to Ukraine today. So please do not tell us how great Russia and China are. Russia is getting its arse kicked…..

er - that person "on the wrong side of every argument" is you, pete

If we'd done track and trace properly - you know, as several other countries did - we'd have spent less, lost many fewer people and not had to lock-down that second time (or impose as severe a set of restrictions). We'd also be much better prepared to face further variants of this or new diseases. Instead, the government you cheerlead for wasted tens of billions on a system that never worked, just as they wasted tens of billions on a furlough system that was wide open to fraud and tens of billions on PPE from extremely dubious sources (and which was often unsuitable). Their response to COVID was, and continues to be, one of the greatest scandals in the history of this country.

As for this, for once stop regurgitating what you read in the papers and actually look at what is going on. Very few countries outside of the West have gotten involved in sanctions against Russia; countries that our history of alliances say should be helping counter the weaponisation of energy supplies are not doing it (indeed they are coining it in even more than the Russians are). The Russians and Chinese have spent years in diplomatic and development efforts across Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Latin / South America, have propped up / brought about friendly regimes there and already supply vital resources to an awful lot of countries, resources that the regimes running those countries could not easily replace or survive the loss of. When Putin says that governments representing most of the world population are neutral or pro-Russia he is not lying - it is easily observable truth.

Speaking of easily observable truth, then there is "Russia is getting its arse kicked" - please look at a map of this conflict. They occupy a big chunk of Ukraine and that chunk is growing.

Then there is climate change, which is demonstrably happening already across parts of the world and for which we are offering insufficient support (as was seen yesterday) whilst also clearly not doing much ourselves to reduce the problem from our end. Yes, the likes of China, India and especially Russia are guilty as well but they'll have the ability to give more help (food, renewables, "security assistance" etc) than we will.

Finally this isn't about Russia or China being great, its about the need for people to get out of the complacency that the media and government are pushing out and realise that we might actually be at considerable peril here. Russia and China together could represent a potential threat considerably greater than the Soviet Union at the peak of its powers, and at the same time Western governments and societies are divided and poorly led (or incompetent in our case).

I appreciate this is a complete waste of time with you of course.
 
If Ukraine dispute the occupation can they ever be a member of NATO under its current rules?

It is NATO so they will ignore what rules they want but that would likely put us into war with Russia.
Turkey has stated they would veto any attempt to include Ukraine in NATO, NATO has countered by threatening to withdraw the veto option. This could lead to a Turkey withdrawal from NATO which I don't think would please the US. Interesting future.
 
er - that person "on the wrong side of every argument" is you, pete

If we'd done track and trace properly - you know, as several other countries did - we'd have spent less, lost many fewer people and not had to lock-down that second time (or impose as severe a set of restrictions). We'd also be much better prepared to face further variants of this or new diseases. Instead, the government you cheerlead for wasted tens of billions on a system that never worked, just as they wasted tens of billions on a furlough system that was wide open to fraud and tens of billions on PPE from extremely dubious sources (and which was often unsuitable). Their response to COVID was, and continues to be, one of the greatest scandals in the history of this country.

As for this, for once stop regurgitating what you read in the papers and actually look at what is going on. Very few countries outside of the West have gotten involved in sanctions against Russia; countries that our history of alliances say should be helping counter the weaponisation of energy supplies are not doing it (indeed they are coining it in even more than the Russians are). The Russians and Chinese have spent years in diplomatic and development efforts across Africa, the Middle East, Asia and Latin / South America, have propped up / brought about friendly regimes there and already supply vital resources to an awful lot of countries, resources that the regimes running those countries could not easily replace or survive the loss of. When Putin says that governments representing most of the world population are neutral or pro-Russia he is not lying - it is easily observable truth.

Speaking of easily observable truth, then there is "Russia is getting its arse kicked" - please look at a map of this conflict. They occupy a big chunk of Ukraine and that chunk is growing.

Then there is climate change, which is demonstrably happening already across parts of the world and for which we are offering insufficient support (as was seen yesterday) whilst also clearly not doing much ourselves to reduce the problem from our end. Yes, the likes of China, India and especially Russia are guilty as well but they'll have the ability to give more help (food, renewables, "security assistance" etc) than we will.

Finally this isn't about Russia or China being great, its about the need for people to get out of the complacency that the media and government are pushing out and realise that we might actually be at considerable peril here. Russia and China together could represent a potential threat considerably greater than the Soviet Union at the peak of its powers, and at the same time Western governments and societies are divided and poorly led (or incompetent in our case).

I appreciate this is a complete waste of time with you of course.
Social media is what it is,but if you look at sites in Africa, Asia and Latin America there is definitely far more support for the idea that this is a proxy war prompted by the US who used NATO to put the squeeze on Russia. The invitations to Finland and Sweden to take up membership have just underpinned the idea. That's not to say they are anti Ukraine. The US/NATO invasions of sovereign states such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Somalia etc make the majority of the world's population very nervous. The recent"change of government" in Bolivia prompted by Elon Musk ( his suggestion) has done little to help the situation.
 
Turkey has stated they would veto any attempt to include Ukraine in NATO, NATO has countered by threatening to withdraw the veto option. This could lead to a Turkey withdrawal from NATO which I don't think would please the US. Interesting future.
They are doing that to re-join F35 and put pressure on Sweden re PKK. No way TUR are leaving the NATO.
 
I tell you what guys, one day when you get up off your knees and grow a pair, you might actually understand why our fathers or grandfathers fought a war…if ever there was an example of kids being spoilt through the efforts of others then you have proven it…bravo…..

Sleep it off
 
They are doing that to re-join F35 and put pressure on Sweden re PKK. No way TUR are leaving the NATO.
Think if Turkey lose any right to veto that may be the outcome,time will tell.
The Turks still have memories of the danger the US put them in during the Cuban missile crisis.
 
Think if Turkey lose any right to veto that may be the outcome,time will tell.
The Turks still have memories of the danger the US put them in during the Cuban missile crisis.
Why would they lose the right to veto?
 
I tell you what guys, one day when you get up off your knees and grow a pair, you might actually understand why our fathers or grandfathers fought a war…if ever there was an example of kids being spoilt through the efforts of others then you have proven it…bravo…..
Wasn't the second world war about Germany invading sovereign states?
The US tend to do that every decade or so.
 
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