Current Affairs Ukraine

[Yarrgh]

There’s a good chance that Ukraine will re-take Kherson and push the Russians back over the Dneiper.

That would make for a natural border given just how crap the Russians are at opposed river crossings.

Just went to the map. It would make sense. Keeping water between yourself and Russia makes a lot of sense given the fiascos they make every time they try to cross a river.

Would Mykolaiv and Kherson make up two border towns either side of the divide? Long time since I talked to anyone from Kherson but my understanding from 10 years ago is that Mykolaiv was the bigger city. Given Russian urban warfare performance so fat they'd be insane to try pushing on.

Also coincidently, I always thought Snake Island was closer to Crimea but it's virtually under Moldova.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Reuters news agency reporting the ship was hit by 2 Harpoon missiles.

Ol Putin lad will be fuming!

 

[davids]

I'm still wondering why the US and NATO aren't calling for a ceasefire.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Just went to the map. It would make sense. Keeping water between yourself and Russia makes a lot of sense given the fiascos they make every time they try to cross a river.

Would Mykolaiv and Kherson make up two border towns either side of the divide? Long time since I talked to anyone from Kherson but my understanding from 10 years ago is that Mykolaiv was the bigger city. Given Russian urban warfare performance so fat they'd be insane to try pushing on.

Also coincidently, I always thought Snake Island was closer to Crimea but it's virtually under Moldova.

Mykolaiv is already under Ukrainian control, always has been. If they re-capture Kherson they push Russians right back over the river so the river forms a natural boundary. I don’t think they have the resources to push Russia back all the way to Crimea.

 

[devogue]

I'm still wondering why the US and NATO aren't calling for a ceasefire.

Because a ceasefire would be up to Ukraine and Russia, and Russia have already shown themselves to be incapable of negotiating.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[tsubaki]

Because a ceasefire would be up to Ukraine and Russia, and Russia have already shown themselves to be incapable of negotiating.

TBF it was Ukraine who walked away from the talks, and for all the Russian behaviour some of the Ukrainian statements about preconditions are as unrealistic as it is possible to be.

Also I see Johnson is over there, telling more of his fibs.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

some of the Ukrainian statements about preconditions are as unrealistic as it is possible to be.

such as?

 

[peteblue]

such as?

I want you out of my country
I want you to stop killing our people
I want you to stop indiscriminate bombing of our cities
I want you to stop stealing our resources

totally unrealistic to expect Russia to agree to any of that…..

 

[devogue]

TBF it was Ukraine who walked away from the talks, and for all the Russian behaviour some of the Ukrainian statements about preconditions are as unrealistic as it is possible to be.

Also I see Johnson is over there, telling more of his fibs.

They walked away because Russia was still refusing to negotiate fairly, even though Ukraine was literally offering to be neutral which is supposedly why this war is happening.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[davids]

They walked away because Russia was still refusing to negotiate fairly, even though Ukraine was literally offering to be neutral which is supposedly why this war is happening.

But then the US NATO alliance helped to push this in the first place,if the offer of neutrality had come when Russian troops were being moved to the border,who knows the invasion might never have happened,but then the US arms industry wouldn't be making hay.

Biden Signs Lend-Lease Act to Supply More Security Assistance to Ukraine

President Joe Biden signed into law the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, which authorizes the administration, through fiscal year 2023, to lend or lease military equipment to Ukraine

www.defense.gov

 

[peteblue]

They walked away because Russia was still refusing to negotiate fairly, even though Ukraine was literally offering to be neutral which is supposedly why this war is happening.

Putin has made a complete arse of this. NATO will be strengthened with the addition of Finland and Sweden, Ukraine will join the EU then NATO. The Russian military is being shown up as being a bit naff, they are losing men and equipment at an alarming rate and no longer project fear to others. It’s up to Ukraine, but if they wish to keep fighting to push Putin completely out of their country, the west will be honour bound to keep providing weaponry and intelligence to allow them to do so……

 

[Yarrgh]

Putin has made a complete arse of this. NATO will be strengthened with the addition of Finland and Sweden, Ukraine will join the EU then NATO. The Russian military is being shown up as being a bit naff, they are losing men and equipment at an alarming rate and no longer project fear to others. It’s up to Ukraine, but if they wish to keep fighting to push Putin completely out of their country, the west will be honour bound to keep providing weaponry and intelligence to allow them to do so……

If Ukraine dispute the occupation can they ever be a member of NATO under its current rules?

It is NATO so they will ignore what rules they want but that would likely put us into war with Russia.

 

[tsubaki]

such as?

They said they needed 1000 howitzers earlier in the week, and 500 MLRS, 500 tanks and various other things to push the Russians back.

That is approaching the number of howitzers and MRLS that the US has in its arsenal, total; to then say that they won't negotiate until the Russians are pushed out is to say they are not going to negotiate.

That is their choice, but doing that harms them, their people, the West, Russia and the rest of the world and increases the risk of an absolute global horror taking place (nuclear conflict, mass starvation, mass disorder, even further damage to the climate or a mix of those).

They should have been in constant, in depth and comprehensive talks since the invasion started - yes, the Russians are going to mess about (as everyone does in war negotiations when they think they are winning) but the world needs to either see peace or to see Ukraine exhaust every effort diplomatically so that the impact of a prolonged war on everyone else can be justified.