Current Affairs Ukraine

[stipe]

They will never be loved because they are capitalists it is in their blood. Every Country has their own warts and benefits so a compromise is always tenable to work together for the common good. The alternative is waking up as slaves.

Unfortunately a lot of people or nations if you will, have historical inferiority complex. My country was 400 years part of Austro-Hungarian/Habsburg Empire, basically despite some people here look at that period as being as part of some "higher European culture" (unlike our disliked neighbor, Serbs, who were under Turkish occupation), real truth is we were just canon fodder for Vienna in their endless wars.

Then we were part of Yugoslavia from 1919 to 1991, again taking orders from foreign capital, and now despite being independent country finally, we again taking orders from either Brussels/Berlin/Washington, it create resentment.

 

[Chewbacca]

I agree with some of your comments. But don't you think Europe is the biggest winner going forward. Perhaps the easy energy is disrupted from Russia but the trade offs are immense. Europe was never energy independent when relying on Russia and just received a wake up call. Biggest relief now not worrying about a conventional strike by their greatest adversary for years to come. I would say Europe will prosper after a few years of tightening the belts.

If Europe finally gets it act together a designs a nuclear base load, renewable variable energy system with battery storage and multiple redundant grids this will be a massive move to to energy independence and a cleaner continent.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Unfortunately a lot of people or nations if you will, have historical inferiority complex. My country was 400 years part of Austro-Hungarian/Habsburg Empire, basically despite some people here look at that period as being as part of some "higher European culture" (unlike our disliked neighbor, Serbs, who were under Turkish occupation), real truth is we were just canon fodder for Vienna in their endless wars.

Then we were part of Yugoslavia from 1919 to 1991, again taking orders from foreign capital, and now despite being independent country finally, we again taking orders from either Brussels/Berlin/Washington, it create resentment.

I can see your viewpoint more clearly. I am lucky having dual Anglo/American citizenship to never have faced being subjugated by an outside force against my will. Only the taxman or perhaps government restrictions internally to contend with. I do admire the people that went before me to provide this healthy lifestyle.
Governments can be fickle at times.

 

[Taifi gorm]

This, it basically allows them to call up reservists and send a load of cannon fodder so they dont "waste" their good troops.

Good troops?

 

[stipe]

I can see your viewpoint more clearly. I am lucky having dual Anglo/American citizenship to never have faced being subjugated by an outside force against my will. Only the taxman or perhaps government restrictions internally to contend with. I do admire the people that went before me to provide this healthy lifestyle.
Governments can be fickle at times.

"Geography is destiny", some countries are certainly blessed with it, or as Otto von Bismarck put it

"The Americans are a very lucky people. They're bordered to the north and south by weak neighbors, and to the east and west by fish"

On other hand someone like Germany in middle of Europe, in peace time their position is beneficial to dominate continent, especially in trade and financially, but in war, its a nightmare. Also look at Russia, its geography that played crucial role in stopping among two largest invasions in history, Napoleon in 1812 and Hitler in 1940s.

 

[Goat]

Good troops?

Troops from "good" families then.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

"Geography is destiny", some countries are certainly blessed with it, or as Otto von Bismarck put it

"The Americans are a very lucky people. They're bordered to the north and south by weak neighbors, and to the east and west by fish"

On other hand someone like Germany in middle of Europe, in peace time their position is beneficial to dominate continent, especially in trade and financially, but in war, its a nightmare. Also look at Russia, its geography that played crucial role in stopping among two largest invasions in history, Napoleon in 1812 and Hitler in 1940s.

Will they be able to stop the Chinese. They will be become their next adversary due to proximity.

 

[stipe]

Will they be able to stop the Chinese. They will be become their next adversary due to proximity.

China and Russia relationship is a more of a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" rather than any warm feelings between two. Especially if Russian gas exports to Europe stop in near future, they gonna become completely dependent on China.
So its gonna be relationship between new dominant power (China) and old declining power of Russia.

It kinda mimics relationship between Germany and Austria-Hungary in WW1, nominally they were supposed to be in equal partnership, but in reality new and powerful state of Germany completely eclipsed old empire of the Habsburgs, or how that famous quote from one German general during WW1 goes

"Germany is shackled to a corpse of Austria-Hungary" (same could happen to China and Russia)

 

[PhilM]

China and Russia relationship is a more of a "enemy of my enemy is my friend" rather than any warm feelings between two. Especially if Russian gas exports to Europe stop in near future, they gonna become completely dependent on China.
So its gonna be relationship between new dominant power (China) and old declining power of Russia.

It kinda mimics relationship between Germany and Austria-Hungary in WW1, nominally they were supposed to be in equal partnership, but in reality new and powerful state of Germany completely eclipsed old empire of the Habsburgs, or how that famous quote from one German general during WW1 goes

"Germany is shackled to a corpse of Austria-Hungary" (same could happen to Russia and China)

China has been quite savvy with their response to the crisis because, as you mention, Russia's opposition to the west can play into their hands in many ways.

It keeps the western governments and populous (US, NATO, EU etc.) focused on Russia as the primary threat, which means there is less focus on their actions.

To that end, it'd be in their interest to support Russia but only within the boundaries that suits their long-term goals: a weakened Russia; a Russia reliant on them.

However, China also understand the importance of western markets is to their economy, so the support will only go so far with Russia kept on its leash.

 

[tsubaki]

If Europe finally gets it act together a designs a nuclear base load, renewable variable energy system with battery storage and multiple redundant grids this will be a massive move to to energy independence and a cleaner continent.

TBF I am not sure that much battery capacity would be required - there are so many mountain chains in so many EU countries that you could have many Dinorwic-type stations to do it instead (and all of that capability is available here already, no need to become dependent on rare materials).

That’s without even mentioning what could be done if North Africa was sorted out (I am not talking about invading, rather offering the people there a deal whereby the EU builds solar farms, agrees trade deals and improves the standard of life for all).

 

[devogue]

 

[tsubaki]

A really significant breach of Parliamentary protocol that.

 

[Yarrgh]

A really significant breach of Parliamentary protocol that.

As long as it actually goes through the right procedures I'm not so worried about this, as it's sending a message clear and without delay that this is the UK's intentions.

I also don't think that Russia will chance it against Finland or Sweden as they will surely be more capable than Ukraine was when it was attacked and look at the toll Russia is paying there - it will not be able to take the damage that Finland and Sweden would impose on any attacking force. This announcement just reinforces this and hopefully goes towards ensuring those countries remain safe.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

As long as it actually goes through the right procedures I'm not so worried about this, as it's sending a message clear and without delay that this is the UK's intentions.

I also don't think that Russia will chance it against Finland or Sweden as they will surely be more capable than Ukraine was when it was attacked and look at the toll Russia is paying there - it will not be able to take the damage that Finland and Sweden would impose on any attacking force. This announcement just reinforces this and hopefully goes towards ensuring those countries remain safe.

Their whole army would be in tatters if they struck Sweden & Finland even without the US backing them. Checkmate!

 

[Yarrgh]

Their whole army would be in tatters if they struck Sweden & Finland even without the US backing them. Checkmate!

Indeed. It would be insanity. But then again they attacked Ukraine which is also pretty insane.

Anyway declaration that we'll step in if those countries are attacked will hopefully reinforce the idea to Russia that it would be a very very bad idea.