Current Affairs Ukraine

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

I'm genuinely curious as to the story there.

For more information News Now Ukraine has plenty of markers albeit in a Ukraine slant. Hit some of the independent news here stateside attacking oil terminals propaganda literature outlets and recruitment centers.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Relationship between Germany and Russia is like 1000 years old, it included various periods of wars and peace, mutual trade and alliances, it was rocky and turbulent to say the least.

History didn't started in 1945, so no, relationship and trade between two of them is nothing new. America got close knit relationship with Saudi Arabia, one of the most despicable regime on Earth, why? Because it suits their geo-political interest

Realpolitik at its most cynical.

​

I have to totally agree. Saudi Arabia financing has now been linked to the 9/11 attacks.

 

[wm02]

As long as it actually goes through the right procedures I'm not so worried about this, as it's sending a message clear and without delay that this is the UK's intentions.

I also don't think that Russia will chance it against Finland or Sweden as they will surely be more capable than Ukraine was when it was attacked and look at the toll Russia is paying there - it will not be able to take the damage that Finland and Sweden would impose on any attacking force. This announcement just reinforces this and hopefully goes towards ensuring those countries remain safe.

I have a friend who is a bit of a Suomiphile. He thinks Finland would be a very difficult opponent for Russia as they have a very extensive network of bunkers and one of the largest collections of artillery in Europe.

 

[devogue]

I have a friend who is a bit of a Suomiphile. He thinks Finland would be a very difficult opponent for Russia as they have a very extensive network of bunkers and one of the largest collections of artillery in Europe.

Finland have been preparing for war with Russia for 80 years. Its why they have such a large army reserve.

 

[stipe]

I don't think Russians gonna attack Finland of Sweden or any NATO countries any time soon.

Putin obviously got hardon for old Tsarist Empire or Soviet Union and Ukraine in his mind was easy picking (he was obviously wrong). Also eternal Russian fear of Europe (same fear that Europe feel of Russia), they want Ukraine as puppet buffer state against rest of the continent.
Russians historically got that paranoia of Europe invading them (Teuton Knights, Swedes, Prussians, Napoleon, Germans), "European states working against us" was always huge part of their propaganda.

Historically that "enemy" was always Germans, but since end of ww2, America took that role from Germany as great Russian enemy. Reading some comments, Russians see now Germany/EU/UK as nothing more than US vassal states.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

Finland have been preparing for war with Russia for 80 years. Its why they have such a large army reserve.

Yep. Their intelligence capabilities too are top notch. A decent army.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I doubt all that very much. If Putin stops at Donbas and what they hold now to enter talks, the lifting of sanctions will be a part of that and we will lift them if the Ukrainians are going ahead with that deal.

No chance IMO. Putin has over stepped the mark by such a way that he has to go. We will not deal with him again. I imagine that when this hits a real wall our bargaining chip will be; new governance in Russia - lifting of sanctions, otherwise we won't talk to him.

There are more rumours of his generals (what is left of them) actively looking for ways out of this and he (not being there) is the quickest way of all.

 

[stipe]

No chance IMO. Putin has over stepped the mark by such a way that he has to go. We will not deal with him again. I imagine that when this hits a real wall our bargaining chip will be; new governance in Russia - lifting of sanctions, otherwise we won't talk to him.

There are more rumours of his generals (what is left of them) actively looking for ways out of this and he (not being there) is the quickest way of all.

I don't think any country in the world gonna respond positively on foreign powers demanding change of leadership in their own country, especially not a county like Russia, that was always playing by their own rules. It just gives fuel to domestic propaganda, us against world thing.

Even if some coup happen, i doubt new Russian leadership would submit to the West, its just not in their nature, they see West as enemy, not just leadership, but majority of ordinary Russians, it was like that for centuries and that not gonna change any time soon

I know people like to give example of Germany and changing their ways, but Germany was totally defeated and occupied by foreign powers in 1945, ditto for Napoleonic France in 1815, do you see that could happen to Russia any time soon?

 

[tsubaki]

No chance IMO. Putin has over stepped the mark by such a way that he has to go. We will not deal with him again. I imagine that when this hits a real wall our bargaining chip will be; new governance in Russia - lifting of sanctions, otherwise we won't talk to him.

There are more rumours of his generals (what is left of them) actively looking for ways out of this and he (not being there) is the quickest way of all.

That just isn't likely at all - if the Ukrainians are negotiating a deal that they can live with and sanctions relief is a part of that, we are not going to publicly wreck it by refusing to lift those sanctions (that were brought in to try and stop this don't forget).

There will be unofficial things like countries not being so willing to engage with them, but the only way the sanctions stay for any length of time is if the war continues for any length of time.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Sweden and Finland are not the “hegemonic” West, don’t have the history of imperialism

Think Sweden basically owned Norway until about 1905. Not that I particularly disagree with your post.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

That just isn't likely at all - if the Ukrainians are negotiating a deal that they can live with and sanctions relief is a part of that, we are not going to publicly wreck it by refusing to lift those sanctions (that were brought in to try and stop this don't forget).

There will be unofficial things like countries not being so willing to engage with them, but the only way the sanctions stay for any length of time is if the war continues for any length of time.

I don't think any country in the world gonna respond positively on foreign powers demanding change of leadership in their own country, especially not a county like Russia, that was always playing by their own rules. It just gives fuel to domestic propaganda, us against world thing.

Even if some coup happen, i doubt new Russian leadership would submit to the West, its just not in their nature, they see West as enemy, not just leadership, but majority of ordinary Russians, it was like that for centuries and that not gonna change any time soon

I know people like to give example of Germany and changing their ways, but Germany was totally defeated and occupied by foreign powers in 1945, ditto for Napoleonic France in 1815, do you see that could happen to Russia any time soon?

Sorry, this is not stopping for some easy peace deal. Ukes are now armed and Russia feeling the pinch, they (ukes) want their land back. The west have slapped so many sanctions on Russia and are making way to ditch their oil and gas, the only way we come back is on our terms. It could be a long while yet before we are near this point, but no one is backing down here.

 

[wm02]

Think Sweden basically owned Norway until about 1905. Not that I particularly disagree with your post.

They took over parts of most of the countries with access to the Baltic Sea (including Poland, Estonia) during the 17th/18th centuries.

 

[stipe]

They took over parts of most of the countries with access to the Baltic Sea (including Poland, Estonia) during the 17th/18th centuries.

Swedes were brutal militarist power in that era (Prussia before the Prussia), [Poor language removed] and massacres they done in Poland at the time is bigger proportionally than ww2 destruction on territory of Poland. Its called "Swedish Deluge".

Not to mention atrocities of Thirty Years War (that big Protestant vs Catholics slaughterhouse), i read that Holy Roman Empire (Germany+Austria+Czech) lost 30 percent of its population during Swedish invasions and Austrian/Catholics counter-attacks that raged for three decades.

Swedes were so crazy they even invaded Russia.

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Finland have been preparing for war with Russia for 80 years. Its why they have such a large army reserve.

No way it would political suicide no matter what rhetoric comes out of the Kremlin. They need to thread carefully now to not lose their influence in their own country.

I don't think any country in the world gonna respond positively on foreign powers demanding change of leadership in their own country, especially not a county like Russia, that was always playing by their own rules. It just gives fuel to domestic propaganda, us against world thing.

Even if some coup happen, i doubt new Russian leadership would submit to the West, its just not in their nature, they see West as enemy, not just leadership, but majority of ordinary Russians, it was like that for centuries and that not gonna change any time soon

I know people like to give example of Germany and changing their ways, but Germany was totally defeated and occupied by foreign powers in 1945, ditto for Napoleonic France in 1815, do you see that could happen to Russia any time soon?

No but they will be a Pariah State with limited means at least for the short term.

 

[wm02]

They took over parts of most of the countries with access to the Baltic Sea (including Poland, Estonia) during the 17th/18th centuries.

And colonized part of New Jersey which may have sworn them off transatlantic expansion ?