Current Affairs Ukraine

[Robert Heenan]

The problem is just like the Covid anti masks/vaxxers, there are unfortunately a large number of morons and idiots who believe in silly wacky conspiracy theories and in essence support the Kremlin.

 

[Cool_Blue]

Mass numbers of civilians being found in a grave is just horrible.

It puts our Everton concerns in perspective.

Please God stop this.

Don’t worry too much BR, as according to some on here, the rape and murder of innocent civilians, the shooting dead a 7 year old boy in front of his mother etc etc, is “media spin”

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Even when this ends, sanctions on Russia should be maintained and even strengthened until there's regime change and reparations. Squeeze them for decades if necessary.

This has to be the case. Putin caught the world off guard with this invasion. There was an article from secret service chiefs who were saying it wouldn't happen right up until it happened.

If he gets away with this and we retract the levers of consequence then the message that this sends to him and China is do what you want.

 

[PeregrineT]

We said "How could you, if you invade there will be severe consequences" and then he did. Then we said "Unless you withdraw and stop the deaths of innocent people, there will be brutal sanctions such as a banning of all of your oil/gas exports, and a removal from banking", and he didnt.

And then Putin said "Also, Im not just going to invade, Im also going to murder, rape, pillage, commit mass genocide, have my army go throughout the country and just kill women children and the elderly, torture and assassinate". And we said "Well we dont want gas prices to go too high and removing a country completely from banking is kind of severe".

History will be a brutal judge for almost everyone involved.

 

[spectateur]

Even when this ends, sanctions on Russia should be maintained and even strengthened until there's regime change and reparations. Squeeze them for decades if necessary.

Let's not forget how the brutal conditions laid down in the treaty of Versailles indirectly led to formation of the nazi party.

 

[ChesterBlue]

Let's not forget how the brutal conditions laid down in the treaty of Versailles indirectly led to formation of the nazi party.

The issue is, the sanctions need to specifically target the oligarchy and government - sanctions which penalise normal Russians will just rally people to Putin as they’ll feel they’re being punished for a war they have nothing to do with / actively protested against.

Sadly though this is very, very difficult to do, as the only way to have meaningful sanctions have to cripple their economy to make the cost of war too high

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

This is an interesting analysis of Russia's nuclear strategy.

Nuclear Notebook: How many nuclear weapons does Russia have in 2022?

This Nuclear Notebook examines Russia’s nuclear arsenal, which includes a stockpile of approximately 4,477 warheads. Of these, about 1,588 strategic warheads are deployed on ballistic missiles and at heavy bomber bases, while an approximate additional 977 strategic warheads, along with 1,912...

thebulletin.org

 

[Mrk]

Let's not forget how the brutal conditions laid down in the treaty of Versailles indirectly led to formation of the nazi party.

We're already dealing with fascists, that's where this situation differs. If we were dealing with a mostly democratic country on the edge of totalitarianism, that's where we'd need to learn the lessons from Versailles.

 

[peteblue]

We said "How could you, if you invade there will be severe consequences" and then he did. Then we said "Unless you withdraw and stop the deaths of innocent people, there will be brutal sanctions such as a banning of all of your oil/gas exports, and a removal from banking", and he didnt.

And then Putin said "Also, Im not just going to invade, Im also going to murder, rape, pillage, commit mass genocide, have my army go throughout the country and just kill women children and the elderly, torture and assassinate". And we said "Well we dont want gas prices to go too high and removing a country completely from banking is kind of severe".

History will be a brutal judge for almost everyone involved.

And those like Merkel who have fled the scene……

 

[Ruairi77]

And those like Merkel who have fled the scene……

?

 

[peteblue]

?

While todays incumbents reacted badly, it was Merkel who effectively brought all this upon Ukraine with her Energy policies and NS2….

 

[Goat]

I can only imagine the Euro hatred coming out of Brexit Pete here.

Meanwhile his hero Boris has the KGB around for evening tea and crumpets.

 

[Ruairi77]

While todays incumbents reacted badly, it was Merkel who effectively brought all this upon Ukraine with her Energy policies and NS2….

how so?

 

[DualityNSNO]

While todays incumbents reacted badly, it was Merkel who effectively brought all this upon Ukraine with her Energy policies and NS2….

Elaborate?

 

[PhilM]

Let's not forget how the brutal conditions laid down in the treaty of Versailles indirectly led to formation of the nazi party.

You're right here about how Versailles massively contributed to WWII; you can supplement that with how Germany was treated post-45 and the result.

Yet, the issue is potential false equivalence. How will this war end? German in '19 is potentially significantly massively different nation compared to Russia.

Willhelm had been abdicated, the de facto dictatorship of Ludendorff and Hindenburg had been removed and many in the army felt aggrieved due to the result.

Versailles alone did not result in the rise of the NSDAP albeit a large contributing factor. If Putin is still in power when this war ends, it's a hugely different situation.

The situation with the armies are not the same either. If I were those in power, I'd be making my decisions based on the political situation inside Russia.

Let's also not forget, the situation in '45 was after Germany had been levelled, the leaders eradicated and the public made very, very aware of the crimes.

These circumstances had a huge impact.