Current Affairs Ukraine

[orchard]

Are they that bad or just manned badly using subpar tactics?

I would trade it in if you have one mate.

 

[Yarrgh]

I would trade it in if you have one mate.

I wish I could but the local scallies had it away with their tractor.

 

[Haydn]

Are they that bad or just manned badly using subpar tactics?

As a sales pitch they can’t really say, cracking tank guv, if used correctly.

You could be right on tactics tho’ maybe they have the military equivalent of Benitez in charge ?

 

[PhilM]

Watch the documentary about this the other day, was quite shocked at the number of lash ups that were made resulting in so many unnecessary British deaths, and how much of a close call it was to losing the war.

Oh, it was a huge risk from the start. I know someone who went over to the Falklands in the initial wave with the R SIGNALS attached to 5 Infantry Brigade.

We've talked a few times and the common theme was that their commanding officers felt the chance of success was 50% at best, or a flip of a coin.

A logistical nightmare and a massive redeployment of troops with NI and BAOR still very much active. The Argentinians were well equipped and close to home.

But, where there's will there's a way and the training, experience and tenacity of our forces were a huge factor in success; as many say, you make your luck.

For the loss of the Atlantic Conveyor and the EXOCET attacks on our ships, we counteracted it with sinking of the ARA Belgrano by HMS Conqueror.

It kept their aircraft carrier (the ex-HMS Venerable) and some of their relatively modern ships (they had Type 42 destroyers) back in port for the duration of the war.

The skill of our Harrier pilots made their air assets change tact as they had to skim low and drop their bombs later, which meant that many bombs didn't arm.

Once we were on the ground and our bridgeheads secure, the overall quality of our troops versus theirs meant we were likely to win.

Are they that bad or just manned badly using subpar tactics?

A little bit of A and a little bit of B.

I think the ethos of mass quantities over quality is looking a stronger argument as time goes on especially with their reactive armour, optics and communications.

They've not been maintained well either. However, they've continued to push them down roads without any infantry screening, which is fluffin' suicide.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Oh, it was a huge risk from the start. I know someone who went over to the Falklands in the initial wave with the R SIGNALS attached to 5 Infantry Brigade.

We've talked a few times and the common theme was that their commanding officers felt the chance of success was 50% at best, or a flip of a coin.

A logistical nightmare and a massive redeployment of troops with NI and BAOR still very much active. The Argentinians were well equipped and close to home.

But, where there's will there's a way and the training, experience and tenacity of our forces were a huge factor in success; as many say, you make your luck.

For the loss of the Atlantic Conveyor and the EXOCET attacks on our ships, we counteracted it with sinking of the ARA Belgrano by HMS Conqueror.

It kept their aircraft carrier (the ex-HMS Venerable) and some of their relatively modern ships (they had Type 42 destroyers) back in port for the duration of the war.

The skill of our Harrier pilots made their air assets change tact as they had to skim low and drop their bombs later, which meant that many bombs didn't arm.

Once we were on the ground and our bridgeheads secure, the overall quality of our troops versus theirs meant we were likely to win.

There’s a great story about the assault on goose green by 2 Para.

When I was down there in 89 I walked a few of the battlefields.

The story goes that after a very bitter fight to take the forward Argie MG positions on the high ground overlooking the settlement. (A fight that saw the death of Col H Jones).

The paras then took stock of their remaining ammo and it was pretty grim. So they decided to fire using all of their remaining ammo on 2 key central Argie defensive positions. They then called in an air strike (Harrier) on the same positions.

They then sent forth a surrender demand to the Argies, saying that if they didn’t surrender then they would get more of the same. (At this time 2Para we’re fixing bayonets as they had no ammo left).

Luckily the Argies decided to surrender and were then amazed at just how few paras there were. I think 2 Para were outnumbered 3-1 upon surrender.

Possibly the biggest bluff in military history, but it could of been oh so different.

 

[Goat]

There’s a great story about the assault on goose green by 2 Para.

When I was down there in 89 I walked a few of the battlefields.

The story goes that after a very bitter fight to take the forward Argie MG positions on the high ground overlooking the settlement. (A fight that saw the death of Col H Jones).

The paras then took stock of their remaining ammo and it was pretty grim. So they decided to fire using all of their remaining ammo on 2 key central Argie defensive positions. They then called in an air strike (Harrier) on the same positions.

They then sent forth a surrender demand to the Argies, saying that if they didn’t surrender then they would get more of the same. (At this time 2Para we’re fixing bayonets as they had no ammo left).

Luckily the Argies decided to surrender and were then amazed at just how few paras there were. I think 2 Para were outnumbered 3-1 upon surrender.

Possibly the biggest bluff in military history, but it could of been oh so different.

We ignoring the air strikes???

 

[PhilM]

There’s a great story about the assault on goose green by 2 Para.

When I was down there in 89 I walked a few of the battlefields.

The story goes that after a very bitter fight to take the forward Argie MG positions on the high ground overlooking the settlement. (A fight that saw the death of Col H Jones).

The paras then took stock of their remaining ammo and it was pretty grim. So they decided to fire using all of their remaining ammo on 2 key central Argie defensive positions. They then called in an air strike (Harrier) on the same positions.

They then sent forth a surrender demand to the Argies, saying that if they didn’t surrender then they would get more of the same. (At this time 2Para we’re fixing bayonets as they had no ammo left).

Luckily the Argies decided to surrender and were then amazed at just how few paras there were. I think 2 Para were outnumbered 3-1 upon surrender.

Possibly the biggest bluff in military history, but it could of been oh so different.

The person I know was attached to 2 Scots Guards and observed the actions at Tumbledown. He portrayed a similar story of it being very, very close.

They fortunately at the 7th Gurkha Rifles behind them who were kept in reserve for the war, much to their displeasure, as they were baying for blood.

Everyone talks about the Black Buck raids, but do you know about the Vulcan that flew towards Argentina with a WE 177 on-board? Caused mayhem in DC.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

The person I know was attached to 2 Scots Guards and observed the actions at Tumbledown. He portrayed a similar story of it being very, very close.

They fortunately at the 7th Gurkha Rifles behind them who were kept in reserve for the war, much to their displeasure, as they were baying for blood.

Everyone talks about the Black Buck raids, but do you know about the Vulcan that flew towards Argentina with a WE 177 on-board? Caused mayhem in DC.

No I never heard that one. I know some of the RN ships had nuclear depth charges on board during the conflict but never heard anything about a Vulcan carrying a nuke.

I know they planned and trained to bomb mainland Argentina but then dismissed it in favour of SF attacks on the Super Etendards

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

We ignoring the air strikes???

Eh?

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I just don't understand the hate and grudge which much of the world has for the West. Africa shouldn't be so hateful since the Arabs and Romans were already trading their people long before the Western Europeans came and besides. With regards to India.. We enriched their country since throughout history they were invaded by the Arabs and Mongols etc. Its Western globalisation and technology that brought the mobile phones and Internet to all the Indians and Africans not yo mention enrichment through other cultural influences.

What I would say about many of these countries is that they are extremely corrupt and if they feel Russia and China have their positive interests at heart then they are very sadly mistaken

Go back to Burnley. If you cannot see the state of your own post you’re beyond help!
What a state

Edit: bengal famine, we killed 4 million .. it’s cool cos they now have mobile phones

Slavery, it’s cool, they have mobile phones

The 6 million Muslims we killed during the crusades… it’s cool .. etc etc

 

[PhilM]

No I never heard that one. I know some of the RN ships had nuclear depth charges on board during the conflict but never heard anything about a Vulcan carrying a nuke.

I know they planned and trained to bomb mainland Argentina but then dismissed it in favour of SF attacks on the Super Etendards

My great Uncle was a Wing Commander and he talked about a supposed threat (sabotage) from Argentina against the forces at Ascension and Gibraltar.

As the story went, the Vulcan was on a direct route towards Argentina while ambassadors met, with the message clear, “One attack on our soil is enough!”

Could be BS of course, but he was a sad, miserable arse and never came across as the type to chat wham, which meant I always credited it as true.

I know for a fact that the proposed SF attack on Rio Grande was seen as a suicide mission, with the lads from the four troops in B Sqn. writing farewell letters.

It was stopped at the cabinet because they knew it would be a PR disaster and an attack on Argentinian soil was a no-go in the eyes of the Americans.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

My great Uncle was a Wing Commander and he talked about a supposed threat (sabotage) from Argentina against the forces at Ascension and Gibraltar.

As the story went, the Vulcan was on a direct route towards Argentina while ambassadors met, with the message clear, “One attack on our soil is enough!”

Could be BS of course, but he was a sad, miserable arse and never came across as the type to chat wham, which meant I always credited it as true.

I know for a fact that the proposed SF attack on Rio Grande was seen as a suicide mission, with the lads from the four troops in B Sqn. writing farewell letters.

It was stopped at the cabinet because they knew it would be a PR disaster and an attack on Argentinian soil was a no-go in the eyes of the Americans.

Did you know that they painted up a pair of C-130’s in Argie AF insignia as prep for the assault.

They got as far as launching the recce mission where a team of SAS in s stripped down Sea King made it to the Chile/Argentine border and had to ditch as they were out of fuel.

They torched it then the MOD decided to sack it off as s bad idea, with the SAS team + naval aircrew being ghosted away back to the U.K. via the British embassy in Santiago.

Oh and Btw I also walked the Tumbedown battlefield. You’re dead right. It was a bitter fight up a mountain at night against well dug in MG positions

Total respect to 2 Scot’s - I don’t know how they did it. The terrain is horrendous.

 

[Aberblue]

Once again, we seem to be drifting away from the subject of Ukraine. . . . .

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Once again, we seem to be drifting away from the subject of Ukraine. . . . .

Call the cops

 

[degsy]

If Ukraine had the capability to take out parts of Russia's oil and gas infrastructure Putin would find himself in an even more precarious place. I'm not sure that Germany would be overly happy about this though.