Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
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He is very repulsive.
I actually just read a book on the Finland war ( amongst other topics).
Actually the USSR offered better terms at the beginning of the Winter War than in the peace after the fighting Thus it was seen in some ways as a bad idea to keep fighting beyond the initial peace offer.
However, subsequently uncovered memos from within Russia revealed the Russians would have reneged on the earlier he deal anyway, and took over the whole county. The Finnish realised this and that's why they kept on fighting for territory fiercely until the point the later truce was reached.
So on balance fighting was better than giving in then, as Duality says. However, I think this crisis different because there isn't a world war going on here and all of Putin's reputation and legacy rides on Ukraine. He's going to push it as far as he can, moreso than in the Winter War.
What I meant @tsubaki regarding that. Also I've read (don't remember where, so reliability obviously not amazing) that the nazis were a bit too much in the Finn's ears with their own agenda, so yeah, a much different set of circumstances today.
The rest of that post stands though.
None of this is an accident. Like in Syria, this will likely be a pre-mediated attack on civilian infrastructure to damage and diminish the resolve of the people.
However, it’s things like this which will only incite Ukrainians to fight harder, and rightly or wrongly I suspect Russian soldiers may feel the wrath.
@Mutzo Nutzo you seem to be very knowledgeable in all of this, and I'll be honest I'm not so much... Quick question (or two) if I may.
The Russians always seem to be messing/sniffing around our shores with their subs, especially around/north of Scotland. Are they likely to still about and if so will they be nuke armed? Also, will we/nato have similar deployments around Russia?
The Russians always seem to be messing/sniffing around our shores with their subs, especially around/north of Scotland. Are they likely to still about and if so will they be nuke armed? Also, will we/nato have similar deployments around Russia?
Bluerover
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Mate, this is the danger if it escalates. There will be no winners in this crisis. Russian citizens will suffer economically at the very least. Ukrainian citizens are being bombed and homeless.
If NATO take action, it moves to M.A.D. for most of Europe.. Putin has access to thousands of nuclear weapons.
I’m not ex-navy so there’s probably a few on here better placed to answer your questions like @john jako or @Dylan
From what I know I’d say it’s standard practise for Moscow to have a number of subs sniffing around our coast with a number of aims such as
1. tracking our surface fleet to see how good our asw tactics are.
2. Tracking our own SSBN’s as they go out on patrol.
And I guess there will be one of their own SSBN’s sitting silently somewhere close to our shores loaded with nukes.
And yes we, along with the US, and France do the same to them.
I may be wrong, but an ex-sundodger suggested that SLBMs have a minimum range of at somewhere close to 1,000km because of their trajectory.
It would mean they'd be sitting further away if they wanted to blow us off the planet.
Martin Alvito
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Right, the problem for the Ukrainians is that while their ire may be directed at Putin, it's the enemy soldiers that are within reach.
This is what leads people down the slippery slope of dehumanizing the enemy. The problem with attacks on civilians is that it eventually turns the other side into monsters. This is, however, exactly what Putin wants from a propaganda standpoint. If he can bait some atrocities out of the Ukrainians, it puts him in a position to both gain support for the continuance of the war at home and drive a wedge between Ukraine and the West.
Well, realistically, they'd stay as far away as possible to not damage themselves...
Spadge Vernacular
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Middle East faces severe wheat crisis
Middle Eastern and North African countries rely heavily on wheat imports from Russia and Ukraine. The current war could lead to a severe food crisis in a region already under pressure.
www.dw.com
cooperman
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I've always thought the nuclear deterrent subs hide under the ice in the Arctic circle. They can surface through pretty thick ice can't they?
The range on the missiles is great enough to mean they don't need to be that close...
I'm sure you'll correct me though as your posts so far in this thread have been very insightful
Yeah that's a fair point. Not much use in lobbing a nuclear hand granade at someone.
I can't comment too much due to security and stuff, but SSBN's do not sit anywhere near our potential targets. Our best place is out at sea, in DEEP water with seemingly infinte places to hide. With the ranges capable from the missiles, we can pretty much be anywhere.
As we see with the Russian military, it is in a dilapidated state and no one has any real training, which is being reflected in their performance. They are only making progress due to their sheer numbers.
Except the submarines. That was the only bit of the military that Russia have made constant and real investment in. Their Attack boat force isn't US Seawolf/688(i)/Virgina/UK Astute good, but they are certainly Sturgeon/688 first flight/Trafalgar good. Good enough to be a threat. But thankfully, the Ohio's and Vanguards are exceedingly quiet platforms.
To answer the post quoted in yours.......their attack boat force should not have nukes. They have to comply with all the treaties, just as we do, which include snap inspections (and these are request and adhered to by both sides.....even during the height of the cold war). The sea-based russian nukes are limited to their Delta, Typhoon and Borei class missile boats.
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