Current Affairs Ukraine

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Surely easy to do things that have an immediate effect are banning flights to Russia, banning Russian airlines from flying over and landing in Western Europe, freezing Russian assets and property owned in Western Europe. Even travelling to somewhere like Tenerife you can see how much has been bought up by Russians in the past 10 years, let alone in the UK.
 
Piss poor sanctions from Johnson, bare bare minimum he could do.

Sanctions are not as important as actions we can take now.

Yesterday the Defence Minister was in the Commons confirming they are going to cut a further 10000 posts from the Army; that sends a message to everyone about how seriously we are taking this. That cut has to be reversed, publicly and immediately. It was wrong at the time but far worse now.
 
It's a bit lame though. I mean the brothers that Johnson has sanctioned were already blacklisted by both the EU and US after the invasion of Crimea in 2014. As a sign of the effectiveness of deterrence, it's not exactly promising.
Don't judge by what they say, but what they do. Johnson promised much and delivered nothing.
 
It's a bit lame though. I mean the brothers that Johnson has sanctioned were already blacklisted by both the EU and US after the invasion of Crimea in 2014. As a sign of the effectiveness of deterrence, it's not exactly promising.
I agree that they could and probably should have done more, a lot more, but I'm explaining what I believe their rationale is - a tiered approach over time.

One of the banks they've targeted is a key financier for their MOD deals. I'm not saying it's enough, but it will hopefully have some form of impact on them.
 
The UK is complicit in money laundering Russian dirty money the rest of world knows it...
As is the US, and every other Western democracy. Who do you think has been driving up real estate prices in the most desirable areas of the biggest cities? Suspicious Activities Reports are a joke. To be direct, they exist to catch small-time crooks and drug dealers.

Interesting. Putin will have acknowledged this as a possibility, yet still pressed ahead. That being the case, I think he will go further - otherwise why risk the pipeline?

The Baltics at a minimum have to be in contention now.
He won't attack them directly...unless they elect to withdraw from NATO or NATO decides to remove them. Either is a possibility.

If it comes to an invasion, reality is that the resulting war under Article 5 largely won't be fought there, as things stand. NATO's security guarantee will mean that the alliance will fight to avenge a whole bunch of corpses. That will concern a lot of voters in the Baltics, and Putin knows how to throw money around to stoke those kinds of fears. I can imagine a world where the Baltics, one by one, are run by an elected pro-Russian government that withdraws from NATO. That would more or less ensure that future governments in those states would have to be pro-Russian, which solves Putin's problem without a fight.

With that said, Putin would still have to pacify Ukraine first to apply that kind of pressure. That probably won't be easy. I don't think Putin is fool enough to give a "Mission Accomplished" speech after knocking over Kyiv, or open up a second front while dealing with an insurgency.

There are no formal provisions in the North Atlantic Treaty for the removal of a member, for reasons that made sense at the time it was signed. States can still be kicked out under Article 60 of the Vienna Convention, which governs international treaties, for a material breach. The probable pretext here would be a violation of Article 10 of the North Atlantic Treaty. To quote:

"The Parties may, by unanimous agreement, invite any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area to accede to this Treaty."

Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were invited to join because they are staunch defenders of the principles of the Treaty. Whether they contribute to the security of the North Atlantic area is very debatable. It could be argued that, at present, they are active military liabilities that contribute little to collective security. The opposite could be argued if Sweden and Finland became signatories, and permitted the alliance to station a bunch of planes there and use their ports and territorial waters to do as it pleases in the Baltic. That permits neutering Putin's fleet stationed in Russia's Kaliningrad exclave and closing passage to the North Sea without protest, which would let the alliance move stuff in quantity from other ports on the Baltic Sea at will.

Losing any one of the Baltics then jeopardizes that situation, in which they are both more defensible and far more worth defending.
 
The EU's first tranche are more far reaching and targeted.
And there's a reason for that, but that'll be for a discussion in the Brexit thread. We're less reliant on Russian in some ways, but more reliant in others.

We're also more complicit with their financial affairs (cough... laundering), which when all combined means we are at a greater risk due to standing alone.
 
I agree that they could and probably should have done more, a lot more, but I'm explaining what I believe their rationale is - a tiered approach over time.

One of the banks they've targeted is a key financier for their MOD deals. I'm not saying it's enough, but it will hopefully have some form of impact on them.
I suspect the impact will be akin to that of a feather applied to the armpit.
 
Talking all hypothetically (it'll never happen), I'd go full force of sanctions on their banks and oligarchs. Harass them financially and limit their ability to move money.

I would amass naval forces around the Bosporus and the lower Black Sea and ensure that they are enclosed; harass their merchant fleet and limit trade.

I'd have air and naval forces probe Russian territory (Arctic etc.) with our usual close-incursions and get going with some powerful cyber-attacks on infrastructure.

They've put a lot of troops and forces around Ukraine, so it'll be interesting to see how much they could cope with a real sustained plying of pressure.

But it's not going to happen.
 
Putin right now

What-are-you-doing-with-that-Are-you-going-to-bake-me-a-cake.jpg
 
Looking at the long game, once Putin secures Ukraine, a friendly Orban will give him a free run to the Balkans, and another entry point into Czech/Slovak republic.

Meanwhile Johnson will continue to ramble about a barrage of sanctions that affect about 5 individuals, while the west pays for angering Putin with astronomical cost of living increases.
 
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Putin right now

What-are-you-doing-with-that-Are-you-going-to-bake-me-a-cake.jpg
Day 1 - We will come down like a steel trap on Putin
Day 2- We will impose sanctions...like humongous sanctions... herculean sanctions
Day 3 - we will impose a few sanctions
Day 4 - we will lie about who we have sanctioned.

At the rate the PM is going, by the end of the week we might have a military alliance with Russia.
 
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