Current Affairs Ukraine

[Yarrgh]

Is fracturing the EU an end goal in all of this?

No energy imports = no oil and gas from Russia? And how long does this last if places like Germany grind to a halt and people start freezing. It's a big sh%t show. Could this be a calculated last play of the fossil fuels card before we tip into renewables?

This will get very messy, very quickly now.

Let's see what China does now too.

 

[Kev The Rat]

You're still missing the point that it's highly unlikely that Russia would attack a NATO country, and we won't be pulling troops or equipment out of either.

Ukraine ≠ Poland et al.

Until Putin decides all we can offer in response are ‘sanctions’

 

[Tipp blue]

Is fracturing the EU an end goal in all of this?

No energy imports = no oil and gas from Russia? And how long does this last if places like Germany grind to a halt and people start freezing. It's a big sh%t show. Could this be a calculated last play of the fossil fuels card before we tip into renewables?

This will get very messy, very quickly now.

Let's see what China does now too.

Almost 40% of Russian trade is with the EU, Putin's boner will shrink rapidly if the EU impose proper sanctions..China has already warned (publicly) against an invasion, China needs to protect it's own trade with the USA.

Redirect Notice

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

I believe the actions of Putin are actually easy to comprehend. A huge expanse of land that Napoleon, Imperial Germany and Nazi Germany all crossed to invade Russia itself, the part of Ukraine he wants serves as a buffer and is of great strategic importance to Russia.

No Russian leader is going to tolerate his enemies as they try to integrate this region into the west and into NATO.

I don't like the position he has taken and i'm not pro putin but I can certainly see the logic behind what he is doing, its geo politics 101. Big powers like Russia/USA/China are always going to be protective over regions close to them.

For example, imagine the reaction if China formed an impressive military alliance and then tried to get Canada/Mexico to be a part of it, the US wouldn't stand for it.

I suspect that Putin will accept whatever sanctions we throw at him as long as he secures his position in Ukraine, I can't see a full on war happening.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Until Putin decides all we can offer in response are ‘sanctions’

He has factored sanction and the only logical rationale for conflict is that Putin has decided that the West is weak and any sanctions were worth paying.

We are still far dependent on his hydrocarbons. He knows that will divide all.

Another reason why we need to accelerate our move to green energy but our greed will get in the way...

 

[Kev The Rat]

He has factored sanction and the only logical rationale for conflict is that Putin has decided that the West is weak and any sanctions were worth paying.

We are still far dependent on his hydrocarbons. He knows that will divide all.

Another reason why we need to accelerate our move to green energy but our greed will get in the way...

Certainly the Germans won’t push this too hard for energy purposes. Neither us for finance.

The Ukrainians are fighting our war for us. Maybe one day they’ll wake up and see we aren’t helping them.

 

[tsubaki]

I believe the actions of Putin are actually easy to comprehend. A huge expanse of land that Napoleon, Imperial Germany and Nazi Germany all crossed to invade Russia itself, the part of Ukraine he wants serves as a buffer and is of great strategic importance to Russia.

No Russian leader is going to tolerate his enemies as they try to integrate this region into the west and into NATO.

I don't like the position he has taken and i'm not pro putin but I can certainly see the logic behind what he is doing, its geo politics 101. Big powers like Russia/USA/China are always going to be protective over regions close to them.

For example, imagine the reaction if China formed an impressive military alliance and then tried to get Canada/Mexico to be a part of it, the US wouldn't stand for it.

I suspect that Putin will accept whatever sanctions we throw at him as long as he secures his position in Ukraine, I can't see a full on war happening.

The problem with this analysis is that doing that (military action) only works in the short term; in the longer term is only ever serves to drive the country you are trying to influence away (and other countries), usually into the arms of your enemies.

The US is a good example of this of course; by not rowing with Canada that much (aside from 1812) they have good relations; by rowing with Cuba and going down the military route they have terrible relations and almost ended up with Soviet missiles based there.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Certainly the Germans won’t push this too hard for energy purposes. Neither us for finance.

The Ukrainians are fighting our war for us. Maybe one day they’ll wake up and see we aren’t helping them.

Putin has Germany and the UK right where he wants them. What Germany do with the pipeline and their former chancellor Schroder and his politics is their democratic decision. They are moving away politically from what was and led them to Nordstream

Indeed we have have our own problems with Russia.

US officials echo concerns about Russian 'dirty money' in London hindering sanctions

US officials have raised concerns about effective sanctions on President Putin if Russia invades Ukraine because of “dirty money” tolerance in the UK.

www.cityam.com

 

[Joey66]

@Joey66

Should I double my usual sowing of turnips?

Yes & shove one up Putin's backside ......

 

[PhilM]

Until Putin decides all we can offer in response are ‘sanctions’

Not to be obtuse, but this has been mentioned before. Ukraine is not part of NATO and as such was never going to receive the support other countries would.

Like I mentioned to Bruce Wayne, we've got a battle group in Estonia; in a week, we've doubled that with the Royal Welch, the RTR and support corp.

There's additional naval deployments, air assets and troops across the region. I think we'll deploy more air assets in the coming days to other states.

When it comes to a NATO country, it won't be sanctions.

Putin has Germany and the UK right where he wants them. What Germany do with the pipeline and their former chancellor Schroder and his politics is their democratic decision. They are moving away politically from what was and led them to Nordstream

Indeed we have have our own problems with Russia.

US officials echo concerns about Russian 'dirty money' in London hindering sanctions

US officials have raised concerns about effective sanctions on President Putin if Russia invades Ukraine because of “dirty money” tolerance in the UK.

www.cityam.com

We only use approximately <5% of our gas from Russia, but the issue is that we purchase gas from other states who fill their own quotas with Russian energy.

It'll be a short-term pain, but we need to stand fast and stand united. The last part, however, is my concern.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

The problem with this analysis is that doing that (military action) only works in the short term; in the longer term is only ever serves to drive the country you are trying to influence away (and other countries), usually into the arms of your enemies.

The US is a good example of this of course; by not rowing with Canada that much (aside from 1812) they have good relations; by rowing with Cuba and going down the military route they have terrible relations and almost ended up with Soviet missiles based there.

Cuba is a good example of my point actually, the missile crisis showed that the US would go to great lengths to ensure an enemy did not control a region of land that was strategically important to america. Do I think they cared about their relations with Cuba? No, they wanted to stop Russia from being there at pretty much all costs.

I think it is wrong to compare Cuba to Ukraine too, Ukraine has a lot more in common with Russia than the USA and Cuba. These parts of Ukraine that Putin wants aren't exactly 100% anti Russia

 

[tsubaki]

Meanwhile I see the alt-right / troll types across Europe like the AfD are counselling peace, which should at least make it clear who owns them.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Not to be obtuse, but this has been mentioned before. Ukraine is not part of NATO and as such was never going to receive the support other countries would.

Like I mentioned to Bruce Wayne, we've got a battle group in Estonia; in a week, we've doubled that with the Royal Welch, the RTR and support corp.

There's additional naval deployments, air assets and troops across the region. I think we'll deploy more air assets in the coming days to other states.

When it comes to a NATO country, it won't be sanctions.


We only use approximately <5% of our gas from Russia, but the issue is that we purchase gas from other states who fill their own quotas with Russian energy.

It'll be a short-term pain, but we need to stand fast and stand united. The last part, however, is my concern.

The UK is complicit in money laundering Russian dirty money the rest of world knows it...

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

Meanwhile I see the alt-right / troll types across Europe like the AfD are counselling peace, which should at least make it clear who owns them.

Don't we all want peace? Haven't our own government been pushing peace/ceasefire for weeks now?

 

[tsubaki]

Cuba is a good example of my point actually, the missile crisis showed that the US would go to great lengths to ensure an enemy did not control a region of land that was strategically important to america. Do I think they cared about their relations with Cuba? No, they wanted to stop Russia from being there at pretty much all costs.

I think it is wrong to compare Cuba to Ukraine too, Ukraine has a lot more in common with Russia than the USA and Cuba. These parts of Ukraine that Putin wants aren't exactly 100% anti Russia

The Cubans only looked to the USSR because of the US action though; that was my point. Had the US behaved sensibly that would not have ended up almost destroying the world.