Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
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Kev The Rat
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when we decide we actually want to prevent actions like the ones we are seeing now, instead of obsufucation
I feel that pointless may be a strong word. While they're now clearly not going to stop Russian incursions, the impact afterwards is yet to be seen.
Can Russia truly afford this campaign? Yes they have the gas card, which is a big one, suitable sanctions could put a lot of pressure on their economy.
They're the 11th largest economy and are paying a lot for their military growth. This may hurt Putin in the long-run. Or it may not - the point is we'll see.
Martin Alvito
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Yes, by their nature sanctions never work.
The threat of sanctions has potency. Sanctions are only imposed when deterrence fails - in other words, when the nation that is sanctioned already determined it would prefer to take the punch in order to do as it pleases.
Many threats of sanctions that work are, to the public, in an unobserved set of outcomes because veiled threats made through diplomatic channels are never reported on.
Martin Alvito
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The lesson is clear - no nuclear weapons state will ever again give them up, and the surest way for states under threat to guarantee their security is to acquire them.
I have a hard time, after today, believing that nuclear weapons will never again be used. There were so many slip-ups during the Cold War that, as nations proliferate, sooner or later someone is going to screw up.
tsubaki
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TBF after that speech I would imagine (well, hope) that any waverers amongst NATO or the EU will have finally realised what he is and the danger he presents to all.
I doubt he is that arsed about sanctions, but the response to him has to be for the rest of us in Europe to considerably improve our ability to defend ourselves and to prevent the sort of interference his government is causing across the world. The UK Government can start by immediately reversing those cuts in troop numbers.
tsubaki
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TBF after that speech I feel more confident than not that he will be the person who sets one off.
Yes, but sanctions assume that Russia is a democracy whereby a suffering people can get rid of their leader. Russians are stuck with Putin forever so he couldn't really give a stuff about their wellbeing.
Yarrgh
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They are hopelessly effective against those in power but useful to punish the average person. Maybe that's what causes things to pop eventually.
Or it just stores even more resentment up to enable future unacceptable actions from those that commit them.
Kev The Rat
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got this feeling that even if he was removed, you wouldnt neccessarily get a more amenable leader there.
its simply too big a country to be controlled by NATO or the EU. Rather, it will always attempt to do the 'controlling'.
Then you target the sanctions at his oligarch mates. Start by seizing London properties (and football clubs)
It'll be fudged though. Britain will block any attempts at stopping Russian money flowing into London, Germany will block any attempts to stop Russian oil and gas flowing, it will be a pretense of action that Putin will laugh at.
I think cutting them off from SWIFT will have an impact - just depends if Biden will go that far
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