Current Affairs Ukraine

[edge]

I dont care about either of them. They're both kleptocracies.

But it's pathetic the way some of you have put that Kyiv lot on a pedestal. They top near every corruption table globally. They're a motley crew of gangsters and neo-liberals.

Which polls?
Most I have seen have them.pretty mid ranking.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

This is the Putin regime mindset, pushed here by one of his propagandists.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

"Look at the mad people wanting peace. They're lunatics. We have to have hundreds of thousands more deaths first...everyone knows that's just reasonable".

Just listen to yourselves. The willing dupes of your masters who run the political-media war machine.

Peace, potato!

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The Russian governance model. Corrupt to the core.

 

[davek]

Ukraine is 116th in a table of 180 countries.

Russia 137th.

As said, two kleptocratic societies. Bottom and second to bottom of all European nations in terms of levels of corruption.

2022 Corruption Perceptions Index: Explore the results

How does your country measure up in the 2022 Corruption Perceptions Index?

www.transparency.org

 

[davids]

I remember when this thread was informative and now it’s just @davek jizzing his ballies over any Russian gain and old man @davids ranting about upstart youngsters. Then we get a cameo from @bluestevon that was word spaghetti and now all we need is @Kev The Rat

You've forgotten the forum hawks who want Ukraine to sacrifice a whole generation...while they sit on their hands in a comfy chair behind their computer screens. They are very important,or at least they think they are.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Peace, potato!

 

[davids]

Ahh, that again.

Everyone wants an end to the war, some of us want to see Ukrainian keep as much of THEIR land as possible, others clearly don’t mind Russian expansion.

Yep Russia will be withdrawing from Crimea and the Donbass,next Tuesday at 06:00.
Meanwhile in the real world Ukraine becomes smaller by the day.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

700,000 Russian casualties and climbing.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

700,000 Russian casualties and climbing.

There are a few odd characters who seem weirdly obsessed with seeing young Russian lives fed into Putin's meat grinder. Not a single call from them for Putin to end his invasion, stop the killing and bring the Russian troops home.

 

[Eidean]

Yep Russia will be withdrawing from Crimea and the Donbass,next Tuesday at 06:00.
Meanwhile in the real world Ukraine becomes smaller by the day.

Who’s claiming that? Hence why I said “as much”.

 

[sbbefc]

I dont care about either of them. They're both kleptocracies.

But it's pathetic the way some of you have put that Kyiv lot on a pedestal. They top near every corruption table globally. They're a motley crew of gangsters and neo-liberals.

Most people do. I was at wedding recently and I was asked about my partners family who live there (she couldn't attend as we have a young daughter). I'm no fan of Putin, far from it, but I was getting some some odd looks from people for merely explaining the situation for many people living there.

Lots of people who live there don't care, because as you say, both regimes are as corrupt as each other. People have to give back handers just to see a doctor and the mafia is very much present there.

Some people are actually pro Russia or indifferent. Obviously Ukraine is huge and this varies from one area to another. I'm also not saying this is a majority because I don't know if it is or isn't (we also know people who are fiercly pro Ukraine! ). But the situation is far from the black and white (the good vs evil) situation we are lead to believe.

However, one thing that strikes me is that if Russia does win, then for many people, especially the young, they will lose hope of a democratic (mostly pro EU) future. Personally I don't think that will happen anyway. But even with it's current faults a path to this future can obviously only happen with a Ukraine victory.

 

[davids]

There are a few odd characters who seem weirdly obsessed with seeing young Russian lives fed intore Putin's meat grinder. Not a single call from them for Putin to end his invasion, stop the killing and bring the Russian troops home.

As if he would listen. Sad as it is some people need to face the hard facts. Putin is all in ( his very future depends on it) the West are dipping their toes in and out. No number of retweeted propaganda posts will change that.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Most people do. I was at wedding recently and I was asked about my partners family who live there (she couldn't attend as we have a young daughter). I'm no fan of Putin, far from it, but I was getting some some odd looks from people for merely explaining the situation for many people living there.

Lots of people who live there don't care, because as you say, both regimes are as corrupt as each other. People have to give back handers just to see a doctor and the mafia is very much present there.

Some people are actually pro Russia or indifferent. Obviously Ukraine is huge and this varies from one area to another. I'm also not saying this is a majority because I don't know if it is or isn't (we also know people who are fiercly pro Ukraine! ). But the situation is far from the black and white (the good vs evil) situation we are lead to believe.

However, one thing that strikes me is that if Russia does win, then for many people, especially the young, they will lose hope of a democratic (mostly pro EU) future. Personally I don't think that will happen anyway. But even with it's current faults a path to this future can obviously only happen with a Ukraine victory.

I think it is fair to say that corruption in many former Soviet states can be seen as a "hangover" from Soviet rule, though it's a complex issue with multiple contributing factors. Under the Soviet system, the centralised, authoritarian government fostered a culture of corruption, where patronage, nepotism, and unofficial deals were often the only way to get things done – still very much a fact in Russia today. The state controlled most aspects of life, including the economy, and there was little transparency or accountability. The Russian system, where loyalty to the leader/party or the state, rather than merit or legal process, determines access to resources and power.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, it is reasonable to say that many of these countries struggled with the transition to market economies and democratic governance. The rapid privatisation of state assets resulted in a small elite class, many of whom were former Soviet officials or their associates, amassing vast wealth through corruption. In some cases, Putin being a prime example, they maintained control over key industries, further entrenching corruption as a means of maintaining power.

In addition, the continuing Russian interference in the region, through both political influence and economic leverage (e.g., energy supplies), and invasion, has continued to contribute to instability and corruption in many former Soviet states. In some countries, Russia has supported corrupt regimes to ensure they remain aligned with Russian interests undermining efforts to develop more transparent, democratic systems. I am of the opinion that it will take years away from Russian interference before these states can truly move away from the corrupt practices, but this will also mean stopping Russian interference.

That said, while the Soviet legacy is a significant factor, corruption is also shaped by more contemporary issues, including weak institutions, lack of rule of law, and external influences . Overcoming this deep rooted corruption is a challenge for many former Soviet states, and some have made more progress than others in establishing more accountable systems of governance. Ukraine want the opportunity to move away from this but Putin is not willing to allows this – yet.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

This thread be like...



A microcosm of the conflict itself!