Current Affairs Ukraine

[davek]

Why do you think those countries wanted to become NATO members Dave?

Because their elites wanted to be in a bigger gang.

 

[magicjuan]

Why do you think those countries wanted to become NATO members Dave?

Go read Zbigniew Brzezinski.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Why do you think those countries wanted to become NATO members Dave?

Maybe they don't want a return to this.

 

[davids]

Or, as I said, Russia could bank on it for the removal of many weapons because the west won't want a serious escalation, especially the US in an election year.

Is that not a possibility? Ukraine would make better use of use long range weapons to strike marshalling yards, key factories, oil installations and arms depots.

Hitting Russian cities removes their moral legitimacy and would seriously jeopardise any likelihood of joining NATO.

I wouldn't expect to me right about 'everything up to now'. I'm magnanimous enough if you want to quote errors, and vice versa.

Seem to recall you posting about the vaunted Summer offensive and the game changing NATO weapons that were going to see Ukrainians having beach parties in Crimea.

 

[Ming the Merciful]

Wrong. happily married for 50+ years three kids etc,but then you're just a mouthpiece rather than a doer, posting from mummy's bedroom.Blah blah blah... cowards... blah blah blah. I was in the military... blah blah blah.

You sound like you're 12 lol, I'm embarrassed for your family.

Hated at home and hated on GOT.

Probably why you want to snuggle up with Putin to try and feel safe again.

He'll hate you too.

 

[davek]

Reuters article on Russia's likely response to any long range weapons used deep into Russia:

In the case of Britain, Moscow was likely to declare that London had gone from a hybrid proxy war with Russia to direct armed aggression if it allows Kyiv to fire Storm Shadow missiles at Russia, former Kremlin adviser Sergei Markov said on social media platform Telegram on Friday.
Russia was likely to close the British embassy in Moscow and its own in London, strike British drones and warplanes close to Russia, for example over the Black Sea, and possibly fire missiles at F-16 warplanes that carry the Storm Shadows at their bases in Romania and Poland, Markov predicted.
Putin has tried and failed to draw red lines for the West before, prompting Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy - who is urging the West to be less cautious when it comes to confronting Moscow - to dismiss their importance.
But Putin's latest warning on long-range missiles is being seen inside and outside Russia as something he will have to act on if London or Washington allow their missiles to be used against Russia.
University of Innsbruck's Mangott said the way Putin's warning has been shown repeatedly on Russian state television created an expectation that he would need to deliver.
Dmitry Peskov, Putin's spokesman, told a press briefing on Friday that Putin's message had been "extremely clear and unambiguous."
Markov, the former Kremlin advisor, said "Russia has decided to break" the strategy of "boiling a frog on a slow flame," referring to the West's incremental increases in help to Ukraine aimed at not provoking a sharp Russian response.
"The step that the West is now planning next, it's a small step, but it crosses a red line that we will actually be forced to respond to. We will consider that you are at war with us."
Sergei Mironov, the leader of a pro-Kremlin political party, said in a press statement on Friday: "The moment of truth has come for the West, whether it desires a full-scale war with Russia."

Short of nuclear sabre rattling or strikes on British assets, more predictable responses might include Russia stepping up attacks on Ukrainian civilian infrastructure, Kuehn said.
Mangott predicted Kyiv would bear the brunt of Russia's military response if the West gave it the requested green light, and he did not expect a Russian military attack on NATO territory.
Another option would be for Russia to escalate "hybrid" actions such as sabotage in Europe or interference in the U.S. election campaign, Kuehn said.
Mangott said the danger for the West was that it did not know where Putin's red lines really were.
"Allowing Ukraine to use Western weaponry, assisted with Western satellite images (and) Western military advisers is something that very closely encroaches on vital Russian interests," he said.
"So I think those (people) are wrong who say 'Well nothing will happen, let's just do it.'"

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www.reuters.com

 

[Yarrgh]

Reuters article on Russia's likely response to any long range weapons used deep into Russia:

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www.reuters.com

Seems to be always a new way to escalate. Eventually someone will go too far gor the other side and everyone is goosed.

I hope that they just let Everton win the league before they begin WW3. At least our great-great grandchildren will have a full lifetime without radiation sickness.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Well you've been right about everything up to now.

It’s a discussion forum you bellend. Different points of view discussed openly. It’s not a competition, nor is it a forum for your constant sniping.

If you don’t like that or can’t deal with that then do everyone on here a favour and fk off somewhere else.

You offer nothing here apart from malice and spite. You’ve no intention of engaging in debate as you’re not intelligent enough, you’re simply here to troll.

 

[tsubaki]

Reuters article on Russia's likely response to any long range weapons used deep into Russia:

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www.reuters.com

TBF I disagree with Mangott's point about "not knowing where Putin's red lines really are" - I mean, if a public statement by him and a statement at the UNSC from their ambassador saying this plus whatever has happened in the background that we do not know about are not considered red lines then I don't know what constitutes one any more.

As I have said oft on this thread, if we want to take effective actions against the current Russian regime then there is a lot we can do at home that will be more effective than what we are doing abroad. The expansion of renewable energy production for example - something that we (Europe at least) and ironically enough China are doing right now will harm the Russian economy (as well as every other economy dependent on energy production) seriously in the medium to long term. If we add to that by helping the rest of the world make the switch as well then the effect will be magnified many times over and it would probably help with the issues of migration, climate change and all the rest (as well as defeating their influence attempts).

Taking action against social media, dark money and the buying of political and media influence will help defeat their influence campaigns as well as improve our politics. Reducing excess consumption will reduce the demand for other resources as well, which is probably where the Russian economy will try to go when energy prices fall.

These are all things that can be done now and with far less pain for almost everyone in society. We have been doing some of it, but nowhere near enough.

 

[davek]

TBF I disagree with Mangott's point about "not knowing where Putin's red lines really are" - I mean, if a public statement by him and a statement at the UNSC from their ambassador saying this plus whatever has happened in the background that we do not know about are not considered red lines then I don't know what constitutes one any more.

As I have said oft on this thread, if we want to take effective actions against the current Russian regime then there is a lot we can do at home that will be more effective than what we are doing abroad. The expansion of renewable energy production for example - something that we (Europe at least) and ironically enough China are doing right now will harm the Russian economy (as well as every other economy dependent on energy production) seriously in the medium to long term. If we add to that by helping the rest of the world make the switch as well then the effect will be magnified many times over and it would probably help with the issues of migration, climate change and all the rest (as well as defeating their influence attempts).

Taking action against social media, dark money and the buying of political and media influence will help defeat their influence campaigns as well as improve our politics. Reducing excess consumption will reduce the demand for other resources as well, which is probably where the Russian economy will try to go when energy prices fall.

These are all things that can be done now and with far less pain for almost everyone in society. We have been doing some of it, but nowhere near enough.

Seizing Russian assets in London rather than merely freezing them would be a start. It's still very much Londongrad with oligarch property still untouched.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Poor Vlad is going to have to start pointing and threatening all over the show.

Finland and Sweden do not restrict Ukraine's use of supplied weapons against targets in Russia

Finland and Sweden have not imposed any specific restrictions on the use of weapons supplied to Ukraine. Source: Swedish Foreign Minister Maria Malmer Stenergard and her Finnish counterpart Elina Valtonen during a joint briefing, as reported by European Pravda, citing Finnish public broadcaster...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Eidean]

Because their elites wanted to be in a bigger gang.

Nothing to do with ethnic cleansing in countries like Estonia by the Soviets then?

 

[Del-boy]

More bluster from Putin. Same rubbish that his mate from North Korea comes out with. No chance he uses nukes and not against us as we have our own. That’s why you have a nuclear deterrent. Putin’s military can just about get the advantage over a mostly conscripted Ukrainian army. He knows he would be embarrassed on the battle field against a professional NATO standing army.

 

[PhilM]

 

[davek]

Nothing to do with ethnic cleansing in countries like Estonia by the Soviets then?

Ethnic cleansing?