Current Affairs Ukraine

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davek said:
Starmer is a stooge of the US intelligence community and is using his position as leader of a key American ally to push their agenda with this outgoing president.

No major western European nation would go near a provocation to Russia like that, but he has.

He is a very sinister PM.
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The position is unchanged. What additional provocation has been made?
 
davek said:
Looks like Biden and Starmer backed down from granting Ukraine permission to use long range weapons in Russia.

Wise move if that's the case.
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Wisest for us. Not for Ukraine. Then again the US and UK leaders should occasionally think of what's best for us even if it drops the Ukrainians further into the hole. It's worth noting that a lot of talking heads were saying that the US wasn't going to ok their use but were happy to let the UK and France do what they want.

From what I understand the storm shadow/ scalp from the UK and France have had a progressively higher take down rate by Russia so the fallout to the west is debateably not worth the use to Ukraine from our standpoint.

Anyway I am sure that the US and its allies have far better information and strategic and tactical understanding of what's happening than the combined brains trust of GOT.
 
Jebus_lives said:
The position is unchanged. What additional provocation has been made?
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The provocation is that it will and has changed.

In all likelihood the consent is now given to Kyiv to use long range weapons to strike hundreds of miles into Russia.

The Russians know what the ultimate strategy of Kyiv is: to drag NATO forces into a war with Russia which they (Ukraine) know is impossible for them to win.

The western leaders surely know that. They'll know that Ukraine will eventually target Russian towns and cities with long range missiles and that will force Russia into acting.

IMO the short term response from Russia won't just be militarily: the cutting of sub-sea communication cables to disrupt civilian life here has been mentioned, but more likely the unleashing of terrorist cells in western European nations to bomb major cities. Let's put it this way: if / when the Ukrainians start hitting Russian towns and cities with long range missiles, I wouldn't be making too many journeys into the centre of major cities in the UK after that happens.

Starmer is at the centre of this push, and he'll have unleashed the dogs of war upon UK citizens. The biggest task of any government is to keep its own citizens safe. He's possibly just put that in jeopardy by persuading the US to allow the Kyiv regime to hit Russian towns and cities.
 
davek said:
The provocation is that it will and has changed.

In all likelihood the consent is now given to Kyiv to use long range weapons to strike hundreds of miles into Russia.

The Russians know what the ultimate strategy of Kyiv is: to drag NATO forces into a war with Russia which they (Ukraine) know is impossible for them to win.

The western leaders surely know that. They'll know that Ukraine will eventually target Russian towns and cities with long range missiles and that will force Russia into acting.

IMO the short term response from Russia won't just be militarily: the cutting of sub-sea communication cables to disrupt civilian life here has been mentioned, but more likely the unleashing of terrorist cells in western European nations to bomb major cities. Let's put it this way: if / when the Ukrainians start hitting Russian towns and cities with long range missiles, I wouldn't be making too many journeys into the centre of major cities after that happens.

Starmer is at the centre of this push, and he'll have unleashed the dogs of war upon UK citizens. The biggest task of any government is to keep its own citizens safe. He's possibly just put that in jeopardy by persuading the US to allow the Kyiv regime to hit Russian towns and cities.
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How? The UK position has not moved.
 
Yarrgh said:
Wisest for us. Not for Ukraine. Then again the US and UK leaders should occasionally think of what's best for us even if it drops the Ukrainians further into the hole. It's worth noting that a lot of talking heads were saying that the US wasn't going to ok their use but were happy to let the UK and France do what they want.
From what I understand the storm shadow/ scalp from the UK and France have had a progressively higher take down rate by Russia so the fallout to the west is debateably not worth the use to Ukraine from our standpoint.
Anyway I am sure that the US and its allies have far better information and strategic and tactical understanding of what's happening than the combined brains trust of GOT.
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:lol:

There's some posters on here who'd argue with you over that.
 
davek said:
The provocation is that it will and has changed.

In all likelihood the consent is now given to Kyiv to use long range weapons to strike hundreds of miles into Russia.

The Russians know what the ultimate strategy of Kyiv is: to drag NATO forces into a war with Russia which they (Ukraine) know is impossible for them to win.

The western leaders surely know that. They'll know that Ukraine will eventually target Russian towns and cities with long range missiles and that will force Russia into acting.

IMO the short term response from Russia won't just be militarily: the cutting of sub-sea communication cables to disrupt civilian life here has been mentioned, but more likely the unleashing of terrorist cells in western European nations to bomb major cities. Let's put it this way: if / when the Ukrainians start hitting Russian towns and cities with long range missiles, I wouldn't;t be making too many journeys into the centre of major cities after that happens.

Starmer is at the centre of this push, and he'll have unleashed the dogs of war upon UK citizens. The biggest task of any government is to keep its own citizens safe. He's possibly just put that in jeopardy by persuading the US to allow the Kyiv regime to hit Russian towns and cities.
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Sounds like it`s time for you to get the keys out to your Covid bunker and start stockpiling the canned goods again.

Make sure you take sufficient batteries for your two way radio this time, as your Socialist revolution won`t run itself.
 
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Jebus_lives said:
How? The UK position has not moved.
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Maybe, maybe not.

The ambiguous statements since last night have been indecisive in laying doubts to one side that policy had changed.

Maybe they're going for strategic ambiguity.

Hopefully Biden - who himself might have been looking for a foreign policy 'victory' to see him out of office - has been warned off giving Starmer the green light to this mad request to light the fuse that sees a NATO v Russia conflict trundle into view.
 
davek said:
Maybe, maybe not.

The ambiguous statements since last night have been indecisive in laying doubts to one side that policy had changed.

Maybe they're going for strategic ambiguity.

Hopefully Biden - who himself might have been looking for a foreign policy 'victory' to see him out of office - has been warned off giving Starmer the green light to this mad request to light the fuse that sees a NATO v Russia conflict trundle into view.
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The policy has not changed. There may be a desire for Ukraine to target Russian territory, but that is not backed by the official position.

The tough talking has been limited to calling Putin a bully and asserting Ukrainian sovereignty.

Hardly grounds for a wholesale invasion on UK soil.
 
davek said:
Maybe, maybe not.

The ambiguous statements since last night have been indecisive in laying doubts to one side that policy had changed.

Maybe they're going for strategic ambiguity.

Hopefully Biden - who himself might have been looking for a foreign policy 'victory' to see him out of office - has been warned off giving Starmer the green light to this mad request to light the fuse that sees a NATO v Russia conflict trundle into view.
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They're not going to make any big announcement on it Dave

That would be just gifting Putin what he wants

It'll just happen
 
Jebus_lives said:
The policy has not changed. There may be a desire for Ukraine to target Russian territory, but that is not backed by the official position.

The tough talking has been limited to calling Putin a bully and asserting Ukrainian sovereignty.

Hardly grounds for a wholesale invasion on UK soil.
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Let's see if that's correct.

There's been no affirmation that the policy has not changed.

I fear that the first time we realise it has changed is when there's a report of long range weapons being used to attack Russian military bases and supply lines...which will inevitably escalate to their use on Russian civilian populations.

The Ukrainians are after mission creep - they see this as the first step to drag NATO into the conflict they're losing.
 
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