Current Affairs Ukraine

Status
Not open for further replies.
Spadge Vernacular said:
The problems that exist now are 100% the results of dithering. The problems we will face tomorrow will be propagated by further dithering. There should be zero restrictions put up Ukraine. They are not the aggressors, they are fighting for their existence. Too many ill informed voices placating Putins aggression have brought us to this point.
Click to expand...

This is not the case at all, though.

Ukraine’s problems stem from it being in a state of war with an adversary that has a larger military, larger economy and larger population.

Any debate over what level of support to provide them that isn’t one of “none” or “full” (ie: boots on the ground fighting as well as unlimited supplies and a full war economy) that would guarantee this war ended one way or another is dithering by definition, since we are kicking the final decision (to effectively back them or not) further and further down the road.
 
Watching in disbelieve at the likes of Starmer & Lammy boarding a plane to decide with an American government who have no leader on escalating a war
then the scenario of Russian nuclear activity and mobilization as a warning but could easy be misinterpreted which no doubt will be kept quite by mainstream media while these clowns start wetting the bed on what to do next
interesting times
 
gianthogweed said:
Watching in disbelieve at the likes of Starmer & Lammy boarding a plane to decide with an American government who have no leader on escalating a war
then the scenario of Russian nuclear activity and mobilization as a warning but could easy be misinterpreted which no doubt will be kept quite by mainstream media while these clowns start wetting the bed on what to do next
interesting times
Click to expand...
No doubt if the worst ever happens and this escalates and we get nuked, the message from the UK Government will be that we all be proud of the fact that we’re about to die for wonderful Great Britain and it’s interests….whilst they’re all safe in their underground bunkers.
 
EaEJVf.gif
 
Mutzo Nutzo said:
Let’s break this down into LR precision fires that are under discussion:

ATACMS
There’s a stockpile of M57’s that the US shipped as I believe the motors were in need of upgrade to meet US milspec. That along with the introduction of PrSM meant the M57’s were obsolete. They have a range of 300km (more than enough to hit Ru airfields, C2/C3, logistic hubs and troop concentrations in Russia. Ukraine initially got a load of M39’s (which they burnt through very quickly by knocking out sites in Crimea). And then they got the M57’s. (The US had a pile of about 400)

They are ground launched medium range ballistic missiles launched from either HIMARS or M270’s.

Stormshadow/SCALP-EG
Ukraine got an initial load of these from UK/France. They are air-launched (Su-24) cruise missiles with a range of ~300Km.
Both UK and France have shipped more batches (so much so that UK’s stock is significantly reduced and we’re talking to the Germans about buying Taurus from them to replenish).

JASSM (AGM-158)
This is the latest LR deep-strike weapon under discussion. It’s an air-launched cruise missile and USAF and UKAF are currently modifying their SU-24/34’s to carry this weapon. It has a range of 370km again it brings key Russian targets into range. The US has hundreds of these in stock ready to ship.

If Russia decides to move the targets out of range because of these weapon systems then that’s a win in my book. It means their supply and logs lines are stretched further, it’s more costly and it takes time, effort, resources to move these facilities about and they are vulnerable when they are open, exposed and in transit.


The entire defence manufacturing and procurement programs for NATO nations have gone supercharged over the last 18 months. If you had shares in MBDA, NG, Thales, Rheinmetal or Raytheon then you’d be happy bunny about now.
Click to expand...

This is a great post. It's also a misnomer on the whole German Taurus missiles. They don't have the numbers or "mass" to make all that difference (Germany has reportedly 600) The ATACMs does however (ca. 3700 and more being produced every year)

The French and UK have about 2000 Scalp/Stormshadow between them

Edit. The US has about 7500 JASSMs

These are for higher value targets

They'll want to use artillery for lower value ones.
 
Mutzo Nutzo said:
Let’s break this down into LR precision fires that are under discussion:

ATACMS
There’s a stockpile of M57’s that the US shipped as I believe the motors were in need of upgrade to meet US milspec. That along with the introduction of PrSM meant the M57’s were obsolete. They have a range of 300km (more than enough to hit Ru airfields, C2/C3, logistic hubs and troop concentrations in Russia. Ukraine initially got a load of M39’s (which they burnt through very quickly by knocking out sites in Crimea). And then they got the M57’s. (The US had a pile of about 400)

They are ground launched medium range ballistic missiles launched from either HIMARS or M270’s.

Stormshadow/SCALP-EG
Ukraine got an initial load of these from UK/France. They are air-launched (Su-24) cruise missiles with a range of ~300Km.
Both UK and France have shipped more batches (so much so that UK’s stock is significantly reduced and we’re talking to the Germans about buying Taurus from them to replenish).

JASSM (AGM-158)
This is the latest LR deep-strike weapon under discussion. It’s an air-launched cruise missile and USAF and UKAF are currently modifying their SU-24/34’s to carry this weapon. It has a range of 370km again it brings key Russian targets into range. The US has hundreds of these in stock ready to ship.

If Russia decides to move the targets out of range because of these weapon systems then that’s a win in my book. It means their supply and logs lines are stretched further, it’s more costly and it takes time, effort, resources to move these facilities about and they are vulnerable when they are open, exposed and in transit.


The entire defence manufacturing and procurement programs for NATO nations have gone supercharged over the last 18 months. If you had shares in MBDA, NG, Thales, Rheinmetal or Raytheon then you’d be happy bunny about now.
Click to expand...

I think the UK Taurus thing is just a temporary thing as the UK is apparently building from 2025 SPEAR 5 missiles with France to replace Storm Shadow

Interesting post from you @Mutzo Nutzo

I think these will be for Russian arms/fuel depots and industrial facilities and aircraft on the ground etc. They're not going to be used as tactical battlefield weapons more to interdict Russian arms/equipment to undermine their war machine
 
Damo_1878 said:
I think the UK Taurus thing is just a temporary thing as the UK is apparently building from 2025 SPEAR 5 missiles with France to replace Storm Shadow

Interesting post from you @Mutzo Nutzo

I think these will be for Russian arms/fuel depots and industrial facilities and aircraft on the ground etc. They're not going to be used as tactical battlefield weapons more to interdict Russian arms/equipment to undermine their war machine
Click to expand...
Aye - buying Taurus from Germany is a stop-gap. But only until MBDA ramp up production of Storm Shadow to replace those sent to Ukraine.
 
Damo_1878 said:
What is your thinking on all this?

The hysterical response of Putin shows they are worried I would say. It's a sign of desperation on their part, plus the typical behaviour
Click to expand...
On one hand Putin says if NATO allow Ukraine to use LR weapons against Russia it’s war, but on the other hand he states that he’s already moved his assets out of range.

If that’s the case why is he cryin like a lil bish?

He’s scared
 
Mutzo Nutzo said:
On one hand Putin says if NATO allow Ukraine to use LR weapons against Russia it’s war, but on the other hand he states that he’s already moved his assets out of range.

If that’s the case why is he cryin like a lil bish?

He’s scared
Click to expand...

They've exhausted their air defence using it as artillery and ballistic missiles

They don't have enough now to cover all areas.

It's basically a sign that he most definitely is worried, as it impacts his "strong man" image at home as well

There's just no way that long range strike isn't going to be authorised.

What it means is that the Russian's supplies are now going to be put under extreme pressure and high value (strategic) targets in the rear are vulnerable
 
Damo_1878 said:
They've exhausted their air defence using it as artillery and ballistic missiles

They don't have enough now to cover all areas.

It's basically a sign that he most definitely is worried, as it impacts his "strong man" image at home as well

There's just no way that long range strike isn't going to be authorised.

What it means is that the Russian's supplies are now going to be put under extreme pressure and high value (strategic) targets in the rear are vulnerable
Click to expand...

The is wishful thinking - they’ve got enough air defence left now to make it suicidal for Ukraine to send its Air Force over or near Russia, and anything moveable is probably already out of range of the missiles we are talking about at the moment.

As for “they don’t have enough to cover all areas” - they never did, given the size of the country. They’ll have enough to protect enough to survive any conceivable strike using these weapons from Ukraine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

→ Log in 🔑 Register
đź›’ Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top