Current Affairs Ukraine

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supertoffee98 said:
As a general principle I disagree with countries going into the land of neighbouring countries and claiming it. It is wrong when Israel does it, it is wrong for Russia to and it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same. We should support Ukrainian refugees, accept them into this country, send aid not weapons and push for genuine peace negotiations that stop the war.
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We can deduce from this logic that you believe that in 1945 the Allies should have not entered Germany to end the war, right? We should have just cleared them out of France, Poland etc and stopped at the German border? Which, by the way, would have resulted in a longer war and greater suffering.

And as a few people have rightly pointed out, Ukraine are not claiming any land. That's a key difference here.
 
Mrk said:
We can deduce from this logic that you believe that in 1945 the Allies should have not entered Germany to end the war, right? We should have just cleared them out of France, Poland etc and stopped at the German border? Which, by the way, would have resulted in a longer war and greater suffering.

And as a few people have rightly pointed out, Ukraine are not claiming any land. That's a key difference here.
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100%
 
supertoffee98 said:
On the first point- yes I've thought it through, you just disagree and that's fine.

On your second point- Ukraine has every right to push Russian forces back out of Ukraine. I still don't think British & US weapons should be used though. It makes us responsible for life lost and heightens global tensions. I also never said peace talks should be done with Putin. He probably couldn't anyway because of the arrest warrant. In peace talks you send delegations. But you need de-escalation first.

On your third point- Firing missiles at Russian troops within Ukrainian territory in itself won't push them back. You'd need the lay of the land and possible civilian casualties. I can only say in my opinion I think it's wrong.

On your last para- The borders should be as it were in the Budapest Memorandum. Predicting the order of events though leading to peace talks is like lottery numbers. Ideally? De-escalation, followed by peace talks/UN-led ceasfire, UN-assisted restoration of democracy to Russia post-Putin with blue helmets, as there was in East Timor.
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Ok thanks for reply. Apologies to be a pain and dig further as it does seem a pretty wildly different stance.

So from the start of this war other countries should have declined to provide arms.

I hope you can you confirm this almost certainly means Russia taking some of, part of or all of Ukrainian land

Is there any measures taken to dissuade Russia or turn around the situation and get the borders back to the 1994 agreement in your preferred scenario?

And I'll preempt you hopefully confirming and explaining that, and ask how does your alternative solution achieve that aim in practical terms?

I'd prefer no war and that humans stop being scumbags to each other and we forget borders and nationality, but I don't clearly see in the current reality how a smaller invaded country can defend itself and keep out a much larger force without military support from allies.

You appear to be saying let the chips fall as they may and hopefully people will agree at some point to stop fighting and then hopefully the larger force will agree or can be made to agree to give back the land gained (or the whole country gained).
 
Mrk said:
We can deduce from this logic that you believe that in 1945 the Allies should have not entered Germany to end the war, right? We should have just cleared them out of France, Poland etc and stopped at the German border? Which, by the way, would have resulted in a longer war and greater suffering.

And as a few people have rightly pointed out, Ukraine are not claiming any land. That's a key difference here.
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Indeed it’s not a land grab, I’d like Zelensky to publicly call it a ‘Special Military Operation ‘…….
 
bicycleheader said:
Ok thanks for reply. Apologies to be a pain and dig further as it does seem a pretty wildly different stance.

So from the start of this war other countries should have declined to provide arms.

I hope you can you confirm this almost certainly means Russia taking some of, part of or all of Ukrainian land

Is there any measures taken to dissuade Russia or turn around the situation and get the borders back to the 1994 agreement in your preferred scenario?

And I'll preempt you hopefully confirming and explaining that, and ask how does your alternative solution achieve that aim in practical terms?

I'd prefer no war and that humans stop being scumbags to each other and we forget borders and nationality, but I don't clearly see in the current reality how a smaller invaded country can defend itself and keep out a much larger force without military support from allies.

You appear to be saying let the chips fall as they may and hopefully people will agree at some point to stop fighting and then hopefully the larger force will agree or can be made to agree to give back the land gained (or the whole country gained).
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open goal here?
 
Tactically this is yet another absolute disaster for Russia. How on earth have Ukraine been able to just wander this deep into Russia unchallenged?

I mean, it’s good for Ukraine don’t get me wrong, but it’s mind boggling how it’s been this easy
 
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