Current Affairs Ukraine

[Del-boy]

Does it really show initiative?? What it shows to me is that weapons supplied by the US and UK ostensibly to protect Ukraine and its infrastructure are now being used to claim territory that isn't theirs and has no right to be theirs. More weapons, more taking land, none of this will achieve peace.

Zelensky should be held to account for these actions just as Putin should be for his.

Yes it does. Do you think Russia had been expecting Ukraine to launch an assault into Russia? The answers is no, and this is backed up by Russia only having second rate troops in the area.
The whole idea will be to relieve pressure in others areas of the front in Southern Ukraine. It’s not a “land grab” as such as Ukraine more than likely know they have no hope of holding the territory long term. I expect this operation to last no longer than 5 weeks.

Any longer and Ukraine will be on the receiving end of massive pressure from their European allies to withdrawn out of Russia or they will limit the supply of weapons/materials.

The reason for this being that in over 5 weeks time we start to enter the colder months. Russia supplies the majority of the gas to Europe. You can guarantee pressure will be applied to European leaders by Putin to cut off or vastly reduce the gas supply into Europe if they continue to supply Ukraine’s offensive in Russia. And as has been shown, Ukraine can’t effectively attack and defeat Russia without a steady supply of arms supplied.

 

[peteblue]

There are some flippant responses but most just seem to be missing the point about the UK's role in arming Ukraine.


In all fairness mate you've given decent responses and I've read yours because you said you didn't think I was trolling, I got about 20 notifications after my first two posts and couldn't reply to them all. Again though nobody actually wants to discuss the issue of the UK arming Ukraine and people keep trying to side-step that on here to ask what me what I think about borders and my thoughts on military tactics.

I notice you ignored my fairly simple questions regarding support to invaded countries or against Tyrants…….

 

[supertoffee98]

To be fair I don’t think you clearly said why one country should not assist another with arms when they are being invaded

Or why the invaded country should not cross over the border with troops themselves

Taking away Ukraine or UK or NATO, I wanted to know is this what you are trying to say, and if so what’s the thinking behind it and what should they do in these situations

Because the weapons themselves could end up in the wrong hands. This has happened in the Middle East before where weapons have ended up in the hands of the al-Qaeda.

I don't think Ukraine going into Russia, claiming Russian territory is the route to a peaceful solution. Do you in your heart of hearts believe this course of action will lead to anything other than more suffering?

As a general principle I disagree with countries going into the land of neighbouring countries and claiming it. It is wrong when Israel does it, it is wrong for Russia to and it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same. We should support Ukrainian refugees, accept them into this country, send aid not weapons and push for genuine peace negotiations that stop the war.

 

[supertoffee98]

Firstly, lol @ “western imperialism” in a thread about Ukraine, who’ve been invaded by Russia.

Secondly, nobody in this thread has said you’re not allowed an opinion on it. He’s been asked a fair question, several times, about if it’s just Ukraine that aren’t allowed to cross borders or does he think that about any conflict?

I've said already I think it is wrong, not just for Ukraine

 

[supertoffee98]

I notice you ignored my fairly simple questions regarding support to invaded countries or against Tyrants…….

I got a lot of replies Pete it wasn't anything personal

 

[blulouie]

Because the weapons themselves could end up in the wrong hands. This has happened in the Middle East before where weapons have ended up in the hands of the al-Qaeda.

I don't think Ukraine going into Russia, claiming Russian territory is the route to a peaceful solution. Do you in your heart of hearts believe this course of action will lead to anything other than more suffering?

As a general principle I disagree with countries going into the land of neighbouring countries and claiming it. It is wrong when Israel does it, it is wrong for Russia to and it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same. We should support Ukrainian refugees, accept them into this country, send aid not weapons and push for genuine peace negotiations that stop the war.

Did you sign up just to wind people up.

This really is not the thread to do so.

 

[bicycleheader]

Because the weapons themselves could end up in the wrong hands. This has happened in the Middle East before where weapons have ended up in the hands of the al-Qaeda.

I don't think Ukraine going into Russia, claiming Russian territory is the route to a peaceful solution. Do you in your heart of hearts believe this course of action will lead to anything other than more suffering?

As a general principle I disagree with countries going into the land of neighbouring countries and claiming it. It is wrong when Israel does it, it is wrong for Russia to and it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same. We should support Ukrainian refugees, accept them into this country, send aid not weapons and push for genuine peace negotiations that stop the war.

And I get your rationale, but there’s a flipside

The weapons ending up in wrong hands is a what if, but wouldn’t you agree that not supplying arms to Ukraine is leading to a highly likely chance of them losing part of, if not all their country? So you deny support because of a what if, and almost guarantee another undesired outcome.

How do you square that?

What is a peaceful solution in this war? I don’t see one myself unfortunately

 

[supertoffee98]

Did you sign up just to wind people up.

This really is not the thread to do so.

To answer your question, obviously not. But if you don't like what I think then don't read what I post??

 

[blulouie]

To answer your question, obviously not. But if you don't like what I think then don't read what I post??

What's your former user name mate ?

 

[supertoffee98]

What's your former user name mate ?

I haven't got one?? I only joined a few weeks ago. Whoever you've got a problem with it's not me.

 

[Damo_1878]

Because the weapons themselves could end up in the wrong hands. This has happened in the Middle East before where weapons have ended up in the hands of the al-Qaeda.

I don't think Ukraine going into Russia, claiming Russian territory is the route to a peaceful solution. Do you in your heart of hearts believe this course of action will lead to anything other than more suffering?

As a general principle I disagree with countries going into the land of neighbouring countries and claiming it. It is wrong when Israel does it, it is wrong for Russia to and it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same. We should support Ukrainian refugees, accept them into this country, send aid not weapons and push for genuine peace negotiations that stop the war.

Not allowing Ukraine to take the fight to their invaders will prolong the conflict and cause more suffering. Therefore your naive views are mute.

As for your claims on Al-Qaeda. Give examples. Because you're clearly referring to ISIS. They got western equipment they captured from the Iraqi army which was highly corrupt. Nothing to do with the west. Even the evidence you cite is conflated and merely to reinforce your existing views

 

[blulouie]

I haven't got one?? I only joined a few weeks ago. Whoever you've got a problem with it's not me.

You seem to know your way around for a newbie.
I don't have a problem with anyone , but what I can't take to is anyone coming on here and advocating Ukraine should just roll over and hope for peace.

They have been invaded by the most wicked and ruthless country on the planet yet if they strike back you think it's wrong.

You are either very much misguided with your views , or more deviantly you are on a wind up.

Either way this isn't a thread for that.

 

[bicycleheader]

Not allowing Ukraine to take the fight to their invaders will prolong the conflict and cause more suffering. Therefore your naive views are mute.

As for your claims on Al-Qaeda. Give examples. Because you're clearly referring to ISIS. They got western equipment they captured from the Iraqi army which was highly corrupt. Nothing to do with the west. Even the evidence you cite is conflated and merely to reinforce your existing views

I presume they refer to the arms supplied by the US to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 70s/80……..I think

I’m not actually sure if that is a confirmed fact or “allegedly”

 

[Damo_1878]

I presume they refer to the arms supplied by the US to the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 70s/80……..I think

I’m not actually sure if that is a confirmed fact or “allegedly”

Al-Qaeda wasn't shooting down aircraft with 1980s era Stingers

The one posting this is falling into the trap the rest of the world thinks like he does. It's claptrap

There is no other option to arming Ukraine. As history has proven that failing to deal with aggression invites more aggression

This is what this is. Naked aggression

Ukraine needs to do what it needs to do to fight off the aggressor

 

[supertoffee98]

You seem to know your way around for a newbie.
I don't have a problem with anyone , but what I can't take to is anyone coming on here and advocating Ukraine should just roll over and hope for peace.

They have been invaded by the most wicked and ruthless country on the planet yet if they strike back you think it's wrong.

You are either very much misguided with your views , or more defiantly you are on a wind up.

Either way this isn't a thread for that.

If you are that interested in knowing who I am then feel free to message me I don't have to prove myself to you but if it'll stop you being paranoid the offer is there. Joined the forum like a month ago, obviously we disagree on this matter but that's what forums are for, are they not