Current Affairs Ukraine

[ramacca]

This is more or less what the realists like Mearsheimer were saying about NATO expansion for twenty-five years, just without all the rhetoric.

We left Afghanistan for the same reason the British and Russians did. We lost. Nobody wanted the war in Ukraine from a policy standpoint, but once it kicked off in earnest, supporting Ukraine was a no-brainer from an interests perspective.

Between 2014 and 2022, the US sent Ukraine something like three billion in military and economic assistance. That's not chump change, but it's also a drop in the ocean of a $50 billion annual budget. For perspective, in FY 2020 we sent Jordan almost five times as much, and sent more to places like Egypt, Ethiopia, Nigeria and Kenya than we sent to Ukraine.

That doesn't look like deliberately provoking the war in Ukraine to me. The war there was a predictable consequence of US policy, but if the US had intended to start it we would have prepped for it a lot harder than we did.

You don't need to spend a cent to provoke a war.

 

[ramacca]

Worst nightmare for the US Empire, the growth of Eurasia from Russia to China.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Once Vlad is gone the empire will disintegrate

 

[ramacca]

 

[Martin Alvito]

You don't need to spend a cent to provoke a war.

But you would spend, because you would want to be as well prepared as possible when the war you intended to provoke started. If we observe the United States not making those preparations, we should conclude that its leaders did not wish to provoke the war. It's also easy to forget that most experts believed Ukraine would lose. The division among analysts was mostly over how long it would take, and whether Ukraine had any long-shot chance at victory.

No one thought Russia would have as much difficulty executing a sensible, basic war plan as they did in and around Kyiv. If the Ukrainians fail to stall that offensive, we probably are not discussing whether or not the United States wanted the war.

 

[Martin Alvito]

Worst nightmare for the US Empire, the growth of Eurasia from Russia to China.

Accepting the contentions of one of Beijing's mouthpieces at face value is a big mistake. I don't do that with my own government. I know they lie, too.

The notion that China wanted to be a strategic partner of the United States is laughable. The United States never just hands over Taiwan and the South China Sea. That's crazy talk. The Philippines is next up on the hit list, because of the South China Sea territorial dispute resulting from the oil and gas reserves, and we have a mutual defense treaty with the Philippines. We can back out of a war over Taiwan and lick our wounds. We can't do that in the Philippines.

Understanding the facts and the history is a precondition to understanding why the battle lines are drawn where they are.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

So you are saying that Russians want to fight against the Putin regime. Sound.

 

[Yarrgh]

So you are saying that Russians want to fight against the Putin regime. Sound.

One doesn't have to actually pay attention to what is being said, just feel angry and lash out against those who we say are against you.

I think that's how the propaganda works.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

One doesn't have to actually pay attention to what is being said, just feel angry and lash out against those who we say are against you.

I think that's how the propaganda works.

This "one" is clearly up the shoot.

 

[davek]

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

Neither does this

 

[ramacca]

So you are saying that Russians want to fight against the Putin regime. Sound.

So you are saying it is 'sound', that Russians who are fighting against Putin, whip up a mob to look for, and attack Russian Jews, who are returning from occupied Palestine. This west centric, benefits and losses, view of the world is not surprising. Attempt to damage Putin at the potential expense of Russian Jews.

 

[larrygobfiend]

So you are saying it is 'sound', that Russians who are fighting against Putin, whip up a mob to look for, and attack Russian Jews, who are returning from occupied Palestine. This west centric, benefits and losses, view of the world is not surprising. Attempt to damage Putin at the potential expense of Russian Jews.

Do you support Ukraine’s right to exist?

Genuine question.

 

[ramacca]

A voice of reason against a whipped up mob looking for Russian jews. The mob is 'sound' though according to people with a west centric, benefits and losses, view of the world.