Current Affairs Ukraine

[davek]

The communist party was corrupt from the top to the very lowest ranking party members. The Oligarchs didnt appear out of thin air.

I agree that the free market experiment of the early 99's, designed by Washington and NY think tanks was a complete disaster for your average citizen.

The corruption that was and is still endemic in state bodies such as the military would have bled the system dry regardless.

I didn't say they were a new phenomena I said they were turbo charged by capitalist shock and awe.

If we want to know why we end up with Putin today then the clues are in the 1990s.

 

[dublinbluenose]

I didn't say they were a new phenomena I said they were turbo charged by capitalist shock and awe.

If we want to know why we end up with Putin today then the clues are in the 1990s.

Putin isnt the result of the opening up of the Soviet Union and free markets. Thats one of the dumbest things I've read on this thread.

There are lots of books on how Putin was handed power and then set about ensuring he kept power and criminality is at the very heart of it.

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

The braincell bro's think people being raped and murdered is a fun topic to troll.

They are a stain on the wonderful GOT brand.

I wish I could follow my own advice and not enter this part of the site - it's genuinely embarrassing to read some of this nonsense being presented as honest attempts to debate or change opinion.

 

[Kev The Rat]

Living standards had dropped the economy was failing, and infrastructure was collapsing.

Hence Chernobyl, hence why Gorbachev had to take action and opened up the economy.

Or do you believe he did this because of the west?

Look you’ve clearly got your opinions. I blame the west 90% for this. You don’t. Russia was fine in 1985.

Regrettably, they fell for the wests propaganda and embarked on a ruinous course of action. As I said the propaganda victory was the wests. thats what won the cold war for them.

At some point it becomes a matter of opinion let’s leave it at that, you’ll never be convinced neither will I.

 

[Bohemian Toffee]

Look you’ve clearly got your opinions. I blame the west 90% for this. You don’t. Russia was fine in 1985.

Regrettably, they fell for the wests propaganda and embarked on a ruinous course of action. As I said the propaganda victory was the wests. thats what won the cold war for them.

At some point it becomes a matter of opinion let’s leave it at that, you’ll never be convinced neither will I.

How much do you hold Gorbachev accountable?

 

[Kev The Rat]

How much do you hold Gorbachev accountable?

A lot

 

[COYBL25]

Russia in the 90s was utter hell for the population. Million died in poverty and life expectancy fell through the floor.

You are right to say a lot of the current hatred stems from the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the USSR, which saw a western enabled collapse of society.

I strongly suggest that you read this book comrade.

It goes into minute detail about Putin and his links / ongoing links organised crime in Russia.

 

[bcblue1878]

This is why i laugh at nearly everyone who posts here.

None of that describes organised crime.

It’s not worth me or anyone engaging in debate - just put your own point of view across and wait for and then ignore the blow back.

That’s the decision I’ve taken anyway

You’ve got so many people on ignore you probably wonder why you get so little reaction to your ramblings, reality is they’re all reacting laughing but you choose not to see them!

 

[larrygobfiend]

View attachment 229481

I strongly suggest that you read this book comrade.

It goes into minute detail about Putin and his links / ongoing links organised crime in Russia

There’s zero organised crime in Russia.

Kevski has been Skyping his gopnnik buddies in red square and they told him so.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Kev, regarding likely Ukrainian battlefield losses: a clue was in that Newsnight report about the 24th Mechanised Battalion. It was 2,000 strong when the invasion started, and Mark Urban's report believes that the individual numbers stamped on each medal of honour handed out to the fallen stand at 300 plus since the war began.

If that's a proportion across the Ukrainian army then they've taken a terrible loss of life.

They had about 700,000 men in the army in 2022, that'd translate as what - 80,000 to 90,000 killed in action...

More guess work

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

I’ve got clowns like @Noisy noise annoys and @Rita_Poon who employ that exact tactic and just reduce any debate into juvenile name calling.

Enough.

No, my tactic is to tag you in comments and links to Russisn war crimes, rape of women, murder of children and slaughter of entire villages. Yiu have never once responded instead, you chose to cry about big z being corrupt and phantom figures of uke dead and injured

Why do you never address your boys wanton slaughter?

 

[Yarrgh]

Rubbish organised crime barely existed in the ussr

Oh my poor deluded fool. You do know you are talking nonsense now don't you?

 

[Yarrgh]

Get lost. The Ukros have lost orders of magnitude more that the Russians.

10x I’d say

Man alive, Zelensky himself couldn't design a character more likely to drum up pro-Ukranian sentiment than you. This is all some of wind up now isn't it?

 

[Yarrgh]

The reasoning is to suggest that the Russian people were more to blame for the 90s than the west were.

Thanks that’s enough on the subject for me

You can carry on believing what you want.

Do you know what I blame the 90s on? The 80s ending.

 

[davek]

Putin isnt the result of the opening up of the Soviet Union and free markets. Thats one of the dumbest things I've read on this thread.

There are lots of books on how Putin was handed power and then set about ensuring he kept power and criminality is at the very heart of it.

I'd advise you to pick up and read any book that gives a fairly decent commentary on the way markets expanded into the vacuum left by the collapse of the former Stalinist states.

If you did then you'd see how the ground was prepared for the rise of an autocrat.

To attempt to ignore or downgrade western governments and western corporations impact on the conditions that brought a thug like Putin through to power is astounding and a little bit Orwellian.