Current Affairs Ukraine

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What do you lot make of John Mearsheimer, his realist viewpoint on Ukraine, such as the causes of the war and its general direction?

It assume people think / research beyond what the bbc and guardian etc tells them to think.
 
The cause of the war is a paranoid, criminal, tyrant who has no regard for human life.

Ukraine made a mistake to actively push for NATO (can I say that word?) and EU membership but that is not a pretence for an invasion.

This is a nation who has fought for independence and democracy for decades. They have the right to make their own decisions without the threat of invasion from a scumbag like Putin.

Read a book. Go and see how Russia has treated Ukraine over the centuries. They have a right to want to get away from that and move towards a more democratic society.
 
davek said:
To be fair, they need some Lebensraum...


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Seriously, you are allying yourself with a very stupid individual (and possibly worse) in kev. What once was a very enjoyable internet act, and still someone I respected for altruistic principles has taken a very very dark turn in this thread. I genuinely hope you find a way back, even if I know you will never publically admit it.
 
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Walken said:
Seriously, you are allying yourself with a very stupid individual (and possibly worse) in kev. What once was a very enjoyable internet act, and still someone I respected for altruistic principles has taken a very very dark turn in this thread. I genuinely hope for find a way back, even if I know you will never publically admit it.
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Whomever is behind the @davek character its been disappointing watching then pour petrol on it and set it alight in this thread.
 
Walken said:
Seriously, you are allying yourself with a very stupid individual (and possibly worse) in kev. What once was a very enjoyable internet act, and still someone I respected for altruistic principles has taken a very very dark turn in this thread. I genuinely hope for find a way back, even if I know you will never publically admit it.
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"A very dark turn"...

I'd ask you to retrace my steps in this thread...there you will see a condemnation of Russia's invasion and support for the Ukrainian people and the hope for an outcome to this war that hands them peace and security.

I just happen (rightly IMO) to believe that the Ukrainian hierarchy are a midden - led by corrupt people like Zelensky - who have allowed external actors to drag Ukraine into a drawn out catastrophe. Pointing out their contradictions and follies is not sinister it's completely legitimate and should not be seen as an endorsement of the other side.

Your post underlines that there's an unhealthy uncritical acceptance that those in charge in Ukraine should be above judgement. I don't believe that. For me they are there to be critiqued and if found wanting then that should be pointed out.
 
davek said:
"A very dark turn"...

I'd ask you to retrace my steps in this thread...there you will see a condemnation of Russia's invasion and support for the Ukrainian people and the hope for an outcome to this war that hands them peace and security.

I just happen (rightly IMO) to believe that the Ukrainian hierarchy are a midden - led by corrupt people like Zelensky - who have allowed external actors to drag Ukraine into a drawn out catastrophe. Pointing out their contradictions and follies is not sinister it's completely legitimate and should not be seen as an endorsement of the other side.

Your post underlines that there's an unhealthy uncritical acceptance that those in charge in Ukraine - that they should be above judgement. I don't believe that. For me they are there to be critiqued and - and if found wanting then that should be pointed out.
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I'm not going to be dragged into your attempts to divert a discussion Dave, I thought you to be above what you are doing in this thread. I'll leave it there.
 
Charro said:
The cause of the war is a paranoid, criminal, tyrant who has no regard for human life.

Ukraine made a mistake to actively push for NATO (can I say that word?) and EU membership but that is not a pretence for an invasion.

This is a nation who has fought for independence and democracy for decades. They have the right to make their own decisions without the threat of invasion from a scumbag like Putin.

Read a book. Go and see how Russia has treated Ukraine over the centuries. They have a right to want to get away from that and move towards a more democratic society.
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It’s a messy situation which I feel has been made worse than it should have been.

Whatever the truth of what’s going on it’s been a disaster all round. Ukraine should have pursed the best realistic outcome.

Mearsheimer has an interesting viewpoint, this lecture is now quite famous, and well worth checking out:

 
Walken said:
I'm not going to be dragged into your attempts to divert a discussion Dave, I thought you to be above what you are doing in this thread. I'll leave it there.
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'Divert a discussion' - I have no idea how I've done that...unless what you really mean is 'diverted it away from being a thread that's merely a cheerleading vehicle for the Ukrainian political class and their military'.
 
Spadge Vernacular said:
Russia have absolutely destroyed their reputation haven't they.

The schoolyard bully who has one kid stand up to him and show its all front, which results in everyone laughing at him and then multiple kickings.
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This is it. No one is frightened of them anymore, NATO are looking at them and laughing at their inept handling of the war (sorry, Special Military Operation), their obsolete equipment and the damage being done to them…A busted flush I think is the term……
 
peteblue said:
This is it. No one is frightened of them anymore, NATO are looking at them and laughing at their inept handling of the war (sorry, Special Military Operation), their obsolete equipment and the damage being done to them…A busted flush I think is the term……
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a 'paper tiger' to parrot one of the wank stains from earlier in this thread....

you pick...
 
Kev The Rat said:
more, we have to count MIA and POW in actual losses as well. totals about 35k that we know of. about 160k in total then.

And remember the amputee figure is likely to be lowered to the bare minimum the Ukrainians can get away with releasing, which is fair enough for security purposes.
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Ok, it has become very apparent that you don't have any insight or valid rationale behind your figures. It seems to be a case of take a figure, change it if you don't like it, then use some unknown mental gymnastics to extrapolate it to a number that suits your narrative.

If there is a genuine calculation I would love to see it.
 
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