Current Affairs Ukraine

[Spadge Vernacular]

Check out Newsnight's report last night where they show that a lot of the super yachts and much else besides are still not being seized due to legal claims by family members of oligarchs.

The west are pathetic in enforcing these sanctions is the report's implications.

So you have it that the West are pathetic, Zelensky is the problem, Putin is fine, Ukraine should surrender, zeke heil etc etc . You quisling snake in the grass you.

 

[davek]

Dave in all due respect Ukraine needs you as an ambassador. An aggressor attacks a country and then accepts peace because the other countries leader is corrupt, (takes one to know one doesn't it) and he wants him to be put down. It will never happen. Do you think Hitler in his own perception of strength would relent. No chance. this will continue with both Ukraine and Russia so much weaker. Massive loss of life and internal economic problems for both nations. Cuba is now whining on massive loss of life of their contribution for Russia.

That's a caricature of my view.

Look, wars happen all the time. Do you think they necessarily end up with the return of seized lands.

In an ideal world Putin is overthrown and a new democratic Russia recognises that an invasion like theirs has to be rolled back and Ukraine gets its own land back in return for the Russian speakers in the country being guaranteed their safety after any withdrawal. That's the ideal. The reality is that wont happen. The world has been sucked into a massive economic and military crisis and a deal to end this needs to be done sooner rather than later.

The last thing we all need is for this war to be frozen - the effect on the Ukrainian people would be terrible and the rest of us would also suffer.

Wars end. That we know. This one will too and but wont go back to the pre-February 2022 borders.

 

[davek]

Putin gives biggest hint yet at staggering number of Russians he's sent to die​

Vladimir Putin has ordered almost a quarter of a million certificates for Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine.

Some 230,000 certificates have been made for the families of dead soldiers, according to a tender by the Russian government, reported Verstka media outlet.

This gives the closest indication of how many Russian soldiers have been killed, as the Kremlin only publicly acknowledges the deaths of 6,000.

The certificates are distributed to widows and the children of soldiers.

Another 757,305 certificates were ordered for surviving ‘combat veterans’, putting the total figure of Russian soldiers deployed at nearly one million.

‘The numbers may indirectly indicate the approximate scale of the Russian group participating in the battles and losses,’ stated Verstka.

Ukraine claims more than 270,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in the war.

At a state awards ceremony in August, Putin was seen with Angelina Ivanov, widow of slain Colonel Denis Ivanov, 41, and the couple’s two children.

He also met the widow of slain Guard Captain Roman Vorobyov.

Ukraine has claimed this week that more than 270,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in a war triggered by Putin’s desire to invade his neighbouring country.

Two independent media outlets have carried out in-depth research and found the number of men to have died in the conflict is in fact around the 50,000 mark.

Kremlin officials have continually tried to ‘unsuccessfully hide’ the death count, according to experts analyzing the data.

Mediazona and Meduza have worked together with a data scientist from Germany’s Tubingen University to identify a more realistic reflection of the lives lost.

Where's this from mate

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

I wonder why one of the worlds strongest militaries feels the need to press gang old men, convicts, kids, fellas from Cuba into service, and buy wonky munitions from fat chops, in that world renowned purveyor of quality munitions, North Korea lol

This is Putin's Russia. When they are not pinching toilet seats in Ukraine they are saying that because of the economic realities under Putin's regime the people should eat less so that Vlad and his buddies can quaff fizz and caviar on their yachts.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Thread:

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

That's a caricature of my view.

Look, wars happen all the time. Do you think they necessarily end up with the return of seized lands.

In an ideal world Putin is overthrown and a new democratic Russia recognises that an invasion like theirs has to be rolled back and Ukraine gets its own land back in return for the Russian speakers in the country being guaranteed their safety after any withdrawal. That's the ideal. The reality is that wont happen. The world has been sucked into a massive economic and military crisis and a deal to end this needs to be done sooner rather than later.

The last thing we all need is for this war to be frozen - the effect on the Ukrainian people would be terrible and the rest of us would also suffer.

Wars end. That we know. This one will too and but wont go back to the pre-February 2022 borders.

Seems like this would up to Putin and his inner circle to agree a peace deal. Again, he will lick his wounds and move on until he cannot.

 

[PKwalnuts]

That's a caricature of my view.

Look, wars happen all the time. Do you think they necessarily end up with the return of seized lands.

In an ideal world Putin is overthrown and a new democratic Russia recognises that an invasion like theirs has to be rolled back and Ukraine gets its own land back in return for the Russian speakers in the country being guaranteed their safety after any withdrawal. That's the ideal. The reality is that wont happen. The world has been sucked into a massive economic and military crisis and a deal to end this needs to be done sooner rather than later.

The last thing we all need is for this war to be frozen - the effect on the Ukrainian people would be terrible and the rest of us would also suffer.

Wars end. That we know. This one will too and but wont go back to the pre-February 2022 borders.

Walking that scenario through, with escalation prevention in mind. What then needs to happen to prevent a repeat incursion in your view?

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Russians getting a proper kicking on the southern flank of Bakhmut

 

[Drico]

And the Azeris are attacking the Armenians again in Nagorno-Karabakh...

Azerbaijan launches ‘anti-terrorist’ campaign in disputed Nagorno-Karabakh region

Bombardment of blockaded region could reopen 2020 war in which land was taken from Armenian population

www.theguardian.com

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

The way for ongoing peace in the region (globally) is for Russia to be dismantled as a military and PMC force. No troops, nukes, missiles tanks, jets etc.

 

[davek]

Walking that scenario through, with escalation prevention in mind. What then needs to happen to prevent a repeat incursion in your view?

I think the only way that happens is if Ukraine are denied Nato status and a buffer remains between Russia and Ukraine. I mean that's the realpolitik of this.

I'm not saying that'll happen or it would be right but that - from a Russian perspective - would end this conflict.

 

[Drico]

The way for ongoing peace in the region (globally) is for Russia to be dismantled as a military and PMC force. No troops, nukes, missiles tanks, jets etc.

Agreed. But as we don't live in Utopia, what's a plausible solution?

 

[Drico]

I think the only way that happens is if Ukraine are denied Nato status and a buffer remains between Russia and Ukraine. I mean that's the realpolitik of this.

I'm not saying that'll happen or it would be right but that - from a Russian perspective - would end this conflict.

It's the very opposite that ends this: a rump Ukraine - assuming that the Russians hold on to much of their current gains - would HAVE to be given NATO membership to ensure protection. Russia won't attack a NATO state. Full NATO membership for Ukraine with NATO battalions stationed in the country is the only guarantee.

 

[PKwalnuts]

I think the only way that happens is if Ukraine are denied Nato status and a buffer remains between Russia and Ukraine. I mean that's the realpolitik of this.

I'm not saying that'll happen or it would be right but that - from a Russian perspective - would end this conflict.

That's a very naive outlook in my opinion. What are you basing that on?
The opposite would be true given what has gone before, in terms of, Russia in the future attempting again to take more land from countries that used to be part of it.

There would be no way to enforce a buffer without Ukraine being part of Nato, unless we're relying on the goodwill and word of Russian Regime.

I hope this ends soon, it won't. Ukraine have to continue, with or without support otherwise they will let the fox take the whole henhouse.

 

[davek]

It's the very opposite that ends this: a rump Ukraine - assuming that the Russians hold on to much of their current gains - would HAVE to be given NATO membership to ensure peace. Russia won't attack a NATO state. Full NATO membership for Ukraine with NATO battalions stationed in the country is the only guarantee.

That's certainly the carrot that keeps the Ukrainians in the game fighting still.

Would that be enough for them to settle this - as a lot of their territory seized is likely to remain in Russian hands.

Also, are Nato serious about Ukrainian inclusion. They promise a lot - same as the EU - but don't deliver concrete steps to the goal.