Current Affairs Ukraine

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Not according to @Toffee_Loaf

Ukraine should just surrender and hand over their country, their economy, their culture, their government, in fact everything, to a steroid bloated madman, just so he can then set his sights on the next nearby country to invade.

Yes, let's all stand in line to lose our Freedom that our fathers and grandfathers have gallantly fought for so a eager simpleton can Empire Build and can subjugate all his new citizens to poorer standards of living while in turn giving a corruptive selective few Mega Yachts and such. Yeh right!

 

[Toffee_Loaf]

OMG!! If that happened the likely outcome is that the Ukrainian people would be subjugated, tortured, raped and murdered or does that sort of thing float your boat?

If not then stop talking bollox

Why? You don't think they can defend themselves? Or you mean that they would have to pursue a policy of peace instead of war?

Not according to @Toffee_Loaf

Ukraine should just surrender and hand over their country, their economy, their culture, their government, in fact everything, to a steroid bloated madman, just so he can then set his sights on the next nearby country to invade.

I must have missed my own comments on that scenario. Why do you thirst for more blood? You do deserve blame for your continued support for more suffering and the pointless killing of people.

Throughout this whole thread where have been the voices for peace? I tried myself a few dozen pages ago, but still the consensus seems to be more blood, more blood, more blood.

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

Why? You don't think they can defend themselves? Or you mean that they would have to pursue a policy of peace instead of war?


I must have missed my own comments on that scenario. Why do you thirst for more blood? You do deserve blame for your continued support for more suffering and the pointless killing of people.

Throughout this whole thread where have been the voices for peace? I tried myself a few dozen pages ago, but still the consensus seems to be more blood, more blood, more blood.

Voices for peace? What peace? Your man invaded Ukraine and bang, peace is out the window.

There’s not a single poster on here other than you putin puppets that wants this war.

 

[COYBL25]

Why? You don't think they can defend themselves? Or you mean that they would have to pursue a policy of peace instead of war?


I must have missed my own comments on that scenario. Why do you thirst for more blood? You do deserve blame for your continued support for more suffering and the pointless killing of people.

Throughout this whole thread where have been the voices for peace? I tried myself a few dozen pages ago, but still the consensus seems to be more blood, more blood, more blood.

I`ll say it again.

All your hero needs to do, is withdraw his troops from the country that he illegally invaded and all of the killing would stop.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Why? You don't think they can defend themselves? Or you mean that they would have to pursue a policy of peace instead of war?

They are pursuing a policy of peace. A peace gained by kicking the orcs out of their country. In order to achieve this they need western support.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Or are you simply trolling?

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Most likely this will be fought to some sort of stalemate, maybe Russia getting some territorial gains than Ukraine will be happy with. I can't understand those who think a victory for Russia would endanger our freedoms in this country. I think it's obvious we prodded Russia into feeling threatened on its own doorstep. We should have tried to ensure Ukraine was always neutral between us and the West. I also realise this was easier said than done. However, our policy appears to have been an utter clusterfck in recent years.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Most likely this will be fought to some sort of stalemate, maybe Russia getting some territorial gains than Ukraine will be happy with. I can't understand those who think a victory for Russia would endanger our freedoms in this country. I think it's obvious we prodded Russia into feeling threatened on its own doorstep. We should have tried to ensure Ukraine was always neutral between us and the West. I also realise this was easier said than done. However, our policy appears to have been an utter clusterfck in recent years.

Sorry…you said our policy, what policy exactly are you talking about?

 

[Tennessee Blue Mike]

Most likely this will be fought to some sort of stalemate, maybe Russia getting some territorial gains than Ukraine will be happy with. I can't understand those who think a victory for Russia would endanger our freedoms in this country. I think it's obvious we prodded Russia into feeling threatened on its own doorstep. We should have tried to ensure Ukraine was always neutral between us and the West. I also realise this was easier said than done. However, our policy appears to have been an utter clusterfck in recent years.

Total moronic thinking. I lost you when you said Russia wouldn't endanger our freedoms. If you are British better check on what has going on in the real world mate. Thay hate us with a passion. Search Poseidon weapon for instance and all the rhetoric from your lad Putie.

If and I say if we have a policy it was made during the Cold War. You need to move to Mother Russia if you believe they don't clusterfck everything not just in recent years. Oh, by the way they don't dare lie about anything that just isn't their way.

 

[Toffee_Loaf]

They are pursuing a policy of peace. A peace gained by kicking the orcs out of their country. In order to achieve this they need western support.

Why is this so difficult for you to understand? Or are you simply trolling?

They aren't pursuing a policy of peace. Wasn't it Churchill that said Jaw, Jaw is better than War, War. Ukraine and Russia aren't even talking anymore. 6 months ago, a treaty was drawn up and the two sides were close to an agreement. However, the American's decided they wanted more blood.

Why can't Ukraine fight the Russian's without Western support? I don't remember Russia coming to the defense of Iraq or Afghanistan when we invaded them.

 

[COYBL25]

They aren't pursuing a policy of peace. Wasn't it Churchill that said Jaw, Jaw is better than War, War. Ukraine and Russia aren't even talking anymore. 6 months ago, a treaty was drawn up and the two sides were close to an agreement. However, the American's decided they wanted more blood.

Why can't Ukraine fight the Russian's without Western support? I don't remember Russia coming to the defense of Iraq or Afghanistan when we invaded them.

Links to this treaty please ?

As I remember things, Ukraine said that they’d sign nothing, whilst Russian troops illegally occupied their country ?

Ps - I’m sure that Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, would be thrilled with the thought of a Russian occupied Ukraine on their borders.

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Sorry…you said our policy, what policy exactly are you talking about?

Things such as the attempt to join NATO in 2008, which was backed by the US, though ultimately thwarted by Merkel. However, it should never have been proposed. What was thwarted by Merkel in 2008 may not have been thwarted in later years. Western domestic political interference in Ukraine, plus arming Ukraine to the eyeballs in the years before the recent invasion by Russia. None of this helped the situation. None of this is particularly controversial. George Kennan, the ultimate cold warrior, warned of the dangers 30 or so years ago.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

They aren't pursuing a policy of peace. Wasn't it Churchill that said Jaw, Jaw is better than War, War. Ukraine and Russia aren't even talking anymore. 6 months ago, a treaty was drawn up and the two sides were close to an agreement. However, the American's decided they wanted more blood.

Why can't Ukraine fight the Russian's without Western support? I don't remember Russia coming to the defense of Iraq or Afghanistan when we invaded them.

Churchill also gave his famous “we will fight them on the beaches” speech when threatened with imminent invasion by the Nazis after Dunkirk.

How can you talk with an enemy who constantly targets innocent civilians, murders and rapes woman and children. An enemy that simply wants to destroy you as a nation and as a people.

The Russian politicians even the ones in the Duma are regularly calling for Ukranians to be wiped off the face of the earth. How do you negotiate or talk to an enemy like that?

Prior to the invasion Russian forces outnumbered Ukranian armed forces somewhere in the region of 4:1. They had 5 times as many tanks armoured vehicles and Artillery systems including MLRS. The Russian air force has hundreds more AC than Ukraine and they also had all the long range smart munitions as well, so that’s why Ukraine needs the west, to even things up and give Ukraine the chance to kick the Russians out.

There’ll be no peace talks until Ukraine decides itself it’s ready to talk.

Anything else?

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Things such as the attempt to join NATO in 2008, which was backed by the US, though ultimately thwarted by Merkel. However, it should never have been proposed. What was thwarted by Merkel in 2008 may not have been thwarted in later years. Western domestic political interference in Ukraine, plus arming Ukraine to the eyeballs in the years before the recent invasion by Russia. None of this helped the situation. None of this is particularly controversial. George Kennan, the ultimate cold warrior, warned of the dangers 30 or so years ago.

Let’s not forget Russia’s two invasions of Chechnya , it’s invasion of Georgia its annexation of Crimea and its constant meddling in the Baltic states led the west to think “hang on” there’s a pattern developing here.

I’m not saying that the west didn’t poke the bear but FFS it’s Russia that has shown itself to be an imperialistic war-monger driven by paranoia and a lust to be seen as an equal of the US and China.

Ukraine will win this and become a member of the EU and NATO. Finland is now a NATO member directly in response to Putins aggression. So now he has another massive border with a NATO country to contend with.

He’s proper ballsed this up

 

[Noisy noise annoys]

They aren't pursuing a policy of peace. Wasn't it Churchill that said Jaw, Jaw is better than War, War. Ukraine and Russia aren't even talking anymore. 6 months ago, a treaty was drawn up and the two sides were close to an agreement. However, the American's decided they wanted more blood.

Why can't Ukraine fight the Russian's without Western support? I don't remember Russia coming to the defense of Iraq or Afghanistan when we invaded them.

Treaty?!
The one turkey “brokered”?!!!
Have a look at it, it’s hilarious (if you’re russian).

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Let’s not forget Russia’s two invasions of Chechnya , it’s invasion of Georgia its annexation of Crimea and its constant meddling in the Baltic states led the west to think “hang on” there’s a pattern developing here.

I’m not saying that the west didn’t poke the bear but FFS it’s Russia that has shown itself to be an imperialistic war-monger driven by paranoia and a lust to be seen as an equal of the US and China.

Ukraine will win this and become a member of the EU and NATO. Finland is now a NATO member directly in response to Putins aggression. So now he has another massive border with a NATO country to contend with.

He’s proper ballsed this up

Maybe, I don't predict with any degree of confidence that a stalemate is the ultimate outcome but it's still the most likely of all outcomes. Sure, Russia has been aggressive towards Ukraine. I wouldn't deny this. My earlier statement that a neutral Ukraine was easier said than done was a criticism of both sides. Both sides want Ukraine leaning towards them politically. Both sides were upto allsorts of no good in Ukraine in the last decade or two. If we in the West wanted a peaceful Ukraine leaning towards the West we sure as hell helped screwed that up.