Current Affairs Ukraine

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bluenotred said:
What a load of crap that is. Trump fan are we?
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Neither were fit for office IMO, thats all!

But for clarity, its not about that really, the rhetoric and actions from all sides is war mongering and inevitably leads to that war broadening.

If you think either Biden or Putin are gonna do anything remotely like "stepping back" from this escalation or are even capable of it then you are sorely mistaken.

Since when did sending more arms "EVER" lead to peaceful resolution?

If they don't sit down and talk, either through negotiators or directly this doesn't end well for anyone, no matter what political spectrum you may sit upon.

For even more clarity, given what I know of US politics, I would have to say I'm a Republican over Democrat, but that isn't what the post was about, its just how you took it.

Biden is a bumbling incoherent mess a good deal of the time, as was Trump. Neither are good for their respective parties.

When push comes to shove, take party politics out of it and set aside petty differences over that and look at the whole picture and the whole picture is an absurd mess none of which is ours or Ukraine's making but is an escalation point of years, no, decades, in the making.

If the US was less of a Hegemony and less paranoid about "communism" and if Russia was less belligerent and had moved on since the "break up" of the USSR, we may not be here, but here we are and still people throw "oh Trump fan are we" as some sort of incendiary statement and dont even try and engage!

All that, we all want is a peaceful resolution, personally, I don't see it happening!
 
Dixieslaces said:
Neither were fit for office IMO, thats all!

But for clarity, its not about that really, the rhetoric and actions from all sides is war mongering and inevitably leads to that war broadening.

If you think either Biden or Putin are gonna do anything remotely like "stepping back" from this escalation or are even capable of it then you are sorely mistaken.

Since when did sending more arms "EVER" lead to peaceful resolution?

If they don't sit down and talk, either through negotiators or directly this doesn't end well for anyone, no matter what political spectrum you may sit upon.

For even more clarity, given what I know of US politics, I would have to say I'm a Republican over Democrat, but that isn't what the post was about, its just how you took it.

Biden is a bumbling incoherent mess a good deal of the time, as was Trump. Neither are good for their respective parties.

When push comes to shove, take party politics out of it and set aside petty differences over that and look at the whole picture and the whole picture is an absurd mess none of which is ours or Ukraine's making but is an escalation point of years, no, decades, in the making.

If the US was less of a Hegemony and less paranoid about "communism" and if Russia was less belligerent and had moved on since the "break up" of the USSR, we may not be here, but here we are and still people throw "oh Trump fan are we" as some sort of incendiary statement and dont even try and engage!

All that, we all want is a peaceful resolution, personally, I don't see it happening!
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Trump allowed Russia to get to this point by sucking Putin off and, had he still been in power Ukraine would no longer exist. Biden has totally bossed this in not allowing Russia to trample through Eastern Europe and, by visiting Ukraine he has added even more support to the cause.

You can talk about dialogue, Putin not interested in handing any of Ukraine its land back, Zelenskiy not interested in ceding any of his land (quite rightly)

And yes, you are probably a republican
 
Noisy noise annoys said:
Trump allowed Russia to get to this point by sucking Putin off and, had he still been in power Ukraine would no longer exist. Biden has totally bossed this in not allowing Russia to trample through Eastern Europe and, by visiting Ukraine he has added even more support to the cause.

You can talk about dialogue, Putin not interested in handing any of Ukraine its land back, Zelenskiy not interested in ceding any of his land (quite rightly)

And yes, you are probably a republican
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Honestly this is one of those statements that is repeated ad nauseam without ever really examining whether it is true or not.

Putin has led Russia either directly or indirectly for nearly 25 years now and for all of that time Ukraine has been an independent state. For a lot of the time it was a friendly independent state, and looked to Moscow rather than NATO. Putin has also shown very little evidence so far that he wants to absorb any of the other ex-Soviet states nearby that remain friendly (or at least not aligned to NATO); where he has acted against another state (Georgia, Ukraine) it has been as a response to getting closer to NATO.

If someone in NATO (Trump in this scenario) had an honest conversation with Zelensky - that Russia is much closer to his border than it is to ours, able to exert much greater force, the limits of effective support that could prevent something like this happening and whether it (NATO membership years / decades down the line) would be worth all of it then I think this could have been avoided. Now this is being increasingly framed as either Ukraine fails totally or wins totally which seems to make it vastly more likely one of those things happens.

As for diplomacy, there has been far too little of that throughout this sorry tale. I agree it would probably have no use, but it has to be done.
 
tsubaki said:
Honestly this is one of those statements that is repeated ad nauseam without ever really examining whether it is true or not.

Putin has led Russia either directly or indirectly for nearly 25 years now and for all of that time Ukraine has been an independent state. For a lot of the time it was a friendly independent state, and looked to Moscow rather than NATO. Putin has also shown very little evidence so far that he wants to absorb any of the other ex-Soviet states nearby that remain friendly (or at least not aligned to NATO); where he has acted against another state (Georgia, Ukraine) it has been as a response to getting closer to NATO.

If someone in NATO (Trump in this scenario) had an honest conversation with Zelensky - that Russia is much closer to his border than it is to ours, able to exert much greater force, the limits of effective support that could prevent something like this happening and whether it (NATO membership years / decades down the line) would be worth all of it then I think this could have been avoided. Now this is being increasingly framed as either Ukraine fails totally or wins totally which seems to make it vastly more likely one of those things happens.

As for diplomacy, there has been far too little of that throughout this sorry tale. I agree it would probably have no use, but it has to be done.
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It’s common knowledge that putin had planned to instal his own Russian aligned government once they’d claimed Kiev. They’d also already installed russian teachers,economy, flags and literature in many of the towns they’d claimed. It’s clear that Ukraine would not exist if they’d been victorious, not as we know it at least.

Regardless of the past 20+ years, vlad was/is on a mission here and absorbing Ukraine (possibly other talked about nations also) was clearly the plan.

To add, trump had no appetite for war, China and Xi knew this. They did what they wanted for most of his tenure. What do you honestly think trump would have done in bidens situation?? Nothing is what
 
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Rita_Poon said:
He is to russian way of life what thatcher was/is to the tories, theres plenty of swivel eyed maniacs with a thirst for blood quite prepared to get up on stage and talk up the benefits of doling out pain to those that arent strong enough to fight back. Its what draws them to the job in the first place. Increasing the breadth of human suffering for personal gain. Both would have been top table gestapo.

Edit: moving him won't move the queue behind him. it's a conveyor belt of hate.
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What absolute, mind-boggling nonsense is this? Have a day off, lad...
 
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