Current Affairs Ukraine

[BlueToff]

What a terrible waste of lives

If the West and NATO wanted to stop it, they could. Don't forget that.

Putin's a lunatic, he needs stopping. But this is an unwinnable war for Ukraine too that the US, UK and EU are all keeping going.

Obviously, we can't have Ukraine being wiped out, but maybe instead of sending weapons and planes and more weapons and more planes, they should start getting this thing ended.

Of course though, why would they do that? War's good for business.

 

[Mrk]

If the West and NATO wanted to stop it, they could. Don't forget that.

Putin's a lunatic, he needs stopping. But this is an unwinnable war for Ukraine too that the US, UK and EU are all keeping going.

Obviously, we can't have Ukraine being wiped out, but maybe instead of sending weapons and planes and more weapons and more planes, they should start getting this thing ended.

Of course though, why would they do that? War's good for business.

The war is literally about to play a huge part in plunging the west into a recession. Recessions are not good for business.

 

[BlueToff]

The war is literally about to play a huge part in plunging the west into a recession. Recessions are not good for business.

Spot on. And our governments should collectively attempt to stop it, not fuel it.

 

[BlueToff]

My girlfriend is Latvian, though her parents are Russian - they were there when the Soviet Union broke up and stayed.

None of them, obviously, are in favour of the war, or Putin. Her cousin, who's my age (27), and lives in St Petersburg, is one of the approx. 300,000 to now be placed on the reservist list, and he's desperately trying to flee the country.

What upsets her even more, though, is the one-sided coverage here. While she's no believer of Russian propaganda, they aren't the only ones playing the game.

She's at the web summit this week in Lisbon and as part of that they've had a Usyk and the First Lady of Ukraine among their speakers. They've also had the Queen Consort of Jordan, who decried Russia's acts, but also asked for equal priority to be paid to the atrocities in Syria, in Yemen (on both sides) and in Palestine. Of course though, Ukraine takes precedence - white Europeans after all and, for NATO, a key strategic position and a lot of resources.

I've changed my opinion a fair bit from the start of it all. I still despise Putin, a complete maniac, and think he needs to be shuffled from this mortal coil as quickly as possible. But NATO poked the bear and the bear, unfortunately, is a lunatic - one that has been allowed to get away with too much for far too long.

It makes me sick when I see people share victorious Ukrainian videos of soldiers destroying helicopters with their NATO-supplied weapons, and the social media celebration of other people dying.

If they wanted this war to stop, truly wanted it, then the West, NATO and its allies, that div in the White House and the divs in the UK and the EU, would get it done, in some capacity. A ceasefire of some sort, an agreement of some sort. Why hasn't it happened, or looking any closer to happening?

 

[maccavennie]

My girlfriend is Latvian, though her parents are Russian - they were there when the Soviet Union broke up and stayed.

None of them, obviously, are in favour of the war, or Putin. Her cousin, who's my age (27), and lives in St Petersburg, is one of the approx. 300,000 to now be placed on the reservist list, and he's desperately trying to flee the country.

What upsets her even more, though, is the one-sided coverage here. While she's no believer of Russian propaganda, they aren't the only ones playing the game.

She's at the web summit this week in Lisbon and as part of that they've had a Usyk and the First Lady of Ukraine among their speakers. They've also had the Queen Consort of Jordan, who decried Russia's acts, but also asked for equal priority to be paid to the atrocities in Syria, in Yemen (on both sides) and in Palestine. Of course though, Ukraine takes precedence - white Europeans after all and, for NATO, a key strategic position and a lot of resources.

I've changed my opinion a fair bit from the start of it all. I still despise Putin, a complete maniac, and think he needs to be shuffled from this mortal coil as quickly as possible. But NATO poked the bear and the bear, unfortunately, is a lunatic - one that has been allowed to get away with too much for far too long.

It makes me sick when I see people share victorious Ukrainian videos of soldiers destroying helicopters with their NATO-supplied weapons, and the social media celebration of other people dying.

If they wanted this war to stop, truly wanted it, then the West, NATO and its allies, that div in the White House and the divs in the UK and the EU, would get it done, in some capacity. A ceasefire of some sort, an agreement of some sort. Why hasn't it happened, or looking any closer to happening?

Your last paragraph Toff....think thats down to Russia to stop, ceasefire, retreat, give the land back that they have stolen.....whatever you want to call it....then if Ukraine feel they can sit at the table and discuss things with their neighbouring country about peace I'm sure they will.

The reason why they're using NATO supplied weapons is because if they didn't, I'm pretty sure most of Ukraine would be flattened by now.

 

[Mrk]

Spot on. And our governments should collectively attempt to stop it, not fuel it.

So war isn't good for business now? Good - at least that trope is extinguished.

 

[The binman chronicles]

My girlfriend is Latvian, though her parents are Russian - they were there when the Soviet Union broke up and stayed.

None of them, obviously, are in favour of the war, or Putin. Her cousin, who's my age (27), and lives in St Petersburg, is one of the approx. 300,000 to now be placed on the reservist list, and he's desperately trying to flee the country.

What upsets her even more, though, is the one-sided coverage here. While she's no believer of Russian propaganda, they aren't the only ones playing the game.

She's at the web summit this week in Lisbon and as part of that they've had a Usyk and the First Lady of Ukraine among their speakers. They've also had the Queen Consort of Jordan, who decried Russia's acts, but also asked for equal priority to be paid to the atrocities in Syria, in Yemen (on both sides) and in Palestine. Of course though, Ukraine takes precedence - white Europeans after all and, for NATO, a key strategic position and a lot of resources.

I've changed my opinion a fair bit from the start of it all. I still despise Putin, a complete maniac, and think he needs to be shuffled from this mortal coil as quickly as possible. But NATO poked the bear and the bear, unfortunately, is a lunatic - one that has been allowed to get away with too much for far too long.

It makes me sick when I see people share victorious Ukrainian videos of soldiers destroying helicopters with their NATO-supplied weapons, and the social media celebration of other people dying.

If they wanted this war to stop, truly wanted it, then the West, NATO and its allies, that div in the White House and the divs in the UK and the EU, would get it done, in some capacity. A ceasefire of some sort, an agreement of some sort. Why hasn't it happened, or looking any closer to happening?

I think you need to lock yourself in a room and look at the situation from start to finish again. Taking note that Russia took Crimea 8 years ago saying that they had no interest in the rest of Ukraine and then delve into their ever changing reasons why they wanted to in their words 'liberate' Ukraine.

We celebrate small victories for Ukraine who are taking out military targets and it is these that are responsible for killing and maiming innocent civilians who had done nothing wrong other than live on a patch a land that Herr Putin wanted for himself to 1. Take the sting out of his own people complaining about conditions in his country and 2. Cement a place alongside Lenin and Stalin as an empire builder.

 

[BlueToff]

Your last paragraph Toff....think thats down to Russia to stop, ceasefire, retreat, give the land back that they have stolen.....whatever you want to call it....then if Ukraine feel they can sit at the table and discuss things with their neighbouring country about peace I'm sure they will.

The reason why they're using NATO supplied weapons is because if they didn't, I'm pretty sure most of Ukraine would be flattened by now.

I don't disagree with that, but the thing is, this has been going on - in those regions like Donbas etc - since 2014. And the reason Putin did eventually lodge his attack was because, at least in part, down to what NATO did. He warned them he would and he called their bluff, so to speak.

Now that isn't taking the onus off Russia, but I don't see any urgency to get this war stopped, just more fuelling the fire so to speak. Of course, NATO had to help Ukraine defend itself in some form, I'm not that daft, but that's not going to end this war either.

Ultimately there are a lot of people in Ukraine that see themselves as Russian, especially in certain areas. That is something that needs to be sorted moving forward - ideally, of course, not in the way Putin has done it. There also needs to be recognition that the powers that be in Ukraine, above the government the rest of the world sees, aren't good. And Zielinski himself has been called into question for rather questionable decisions prior to all this kicking off - and I'm not disputing he is doing his best as a war-time leader, btw, or in any way that he wanted this fight.

Ukrainian negotiator killed amid claims of spying

A member of Ukraine’s negotiating team has been shot dead hours before more peace talks amid claims he was a spy.

www.standard.co.uk

There was a lot of doubt, for example, about this incident back in May. I don't think the truth has ever been fully established on exactly what happened there.

 

[BlueToff]

So war isn't good for business now? Good - at least that trope is extinguished.

Well it's certainly good for some businesses.

I don't see the energy companies struggling right now. I don't see many politicians that will be struggling to heat their homes or put food on their table. I imagine arms dealers (the biggest being the UK and the US, of course) are bloody buzzing. I also imagine all those high-tech weapons that will be getting sent to Ukraine will come with a £, € or $ sign attached.

 

[BlueToff]

I think you need to lock yourself in a room and look at the situation from start to finish again. Taking note that Russia took Crimea 8 years ago saying that they had no interest in the rest of Ukraine and then delve into their ever changing reasons why they wanted to in their words 'liberate' Ukraine.

We celebrate small victories for Ukraine who are taking out military targets and it is these that are responsible for killing and maiming innocent civilians who had done nothing wrong other than live on a patch a land that Herr Putin wanted for himself to 1. Take the sting out of his own people complaining about conditions in his country and 2. Cement a place alongside Lenin and Stalin as an empire builder.

Why have you gone down the path of thinking I'm suddenly for Russia or attempting to defend them? I don't think what the Russian government or Putin have done is right at all. I'm also not suggesting for one-minute that I believe their rhetoric.

What I am saying - and you've actually proved my point here - is that while we'll say as the educated West that we see the right side of the story etc, that it's Russia using propaganda, we have to remember that our media outlets, in general, have mainly told one half of the story too.

Putin, it seems, wants to go out with a bang. He's a mad man, and he's had it in for Ukraine. But there are some genuine issues in that nation when it comes to sovereignty too - of course there will be, like there has been and probably still is in the vast, vast majority of those former Soviet block nations.

 

[maccavennie]

I don't disagree with that, but the thing is, this has been going on - in those regions like Donbas etc - since 2014. And the reason Putin did eventually lodge his attack was because, at least in part, down to what NATO did. He warned them he would and he called their bluff, so to speak.

Now that isn't taking the onus off Russia, but I don't see any urgency to get this war stopped, just more fuelling the fire so to speak. Of course, NATO had to help Ukraine defend itself in some form, I'm not that daft, but that's not going to end this war either.

Ultimately there are a lot of people in Ukraine that see themselves as Russian, especially in certain areas. That is something that needs to be sorted moving forward - ideally, of course, not in the way Putin has done it. There also needs to be recognition that the powers that be in Ukraine, above the government the rest of the world sees, aren't good. And Zielinski himself has been called into question for rather questionable decisions prior to all this kicking off - and I'm not disputing he is doing his best as a war-time leader, btw, or in any way that he wanted this fight.

Ukrainian negotiator killed amid claims of spying

A member of Ukraine’s negotiating team has been shot dead hours before more peace talks amid claims he was a spy.

www.standard.co.uk

There was a lot of doubt, for example, about this incident back in May. I don't think the truth has ever been fully established on exactly what happened there.

The onus and urgency to stop this war sits at Russias door Toff. They need to stop, ceasefire, retreat and once thats done I'm sure negotiations will take place between Ukraine and Russia.

Until that happens, (Russia stopping & retreating) then it won't stop.

 

[Mrk]

Well it's certainly good for some businesses.

I don't see the energy companies struggling right now. I don't see many politicians that will be struggling to heat their homes or put food on their table. I imagine arms dealers (the biggest being the UK and the US, of course) are bloody buzzing. I also imagine all those high-tech weapons that will be getting sent to Ukraine will come with a £, € or $ sign attached.

"Some" businesses being the operative word. For the vast majority of businesses it's very bad. Layoffs. Falling stock prices. Sky-high inflation.

Needless to say, none of that is good for politicians wanting to maintain power.

So please just forget that tired old trope.

 

[BlueToff]

The onus and urgency to stop this war sits at Russias door Toff. They need to stop, ceasefire, retreat and once thats done I'm sure negotiations will take place between Ukraine and Russia.

Until that happens, (Russia stopping & retreating) then it won't stop.

And that won't happen without the rest of the world coming together with an actual plan or 'peace offering' - for a lack of a better term. Because Putin's a lunatic.

The onus is more on NATO, than Ukraine, from 'our side'. And obviously, whatever they offer and hopefully agree on would have to protect Ukraine and its people.

It's a proxy war, we can surely all see that. It's Russia v the West being played out in Ukraine just like it was in Vietnam and Afghanistan and tons of other places.

 

[BlueToff]

And forgive me for not holding out much hope when the 'leader of the free world' doesn't know what year it is

 

[maccavennie]

And that won't happen without the rest of the world coming together with an actual plan or 'peace offering' - for a lack of a better term. Because Putin's a lunatic.

The onus is more on NATO, than Ukraine, from 'our side'. And obviously, whatever they offer and hopefully agree on would have to protect Ukraine and its people.

The onus is on Russia Toff. The rest of the world (or vast majority of it) are backing Ukraine and there won't be a plan until Russia stop, ceasefire and retreat. Then I'm sure some kind of peace offering will happen and it will be up to Ukraine and Russia to agree.