Media blitz or not, the bottom line is that Russia are at fault here. Izhium (sp) aside, there has still been an awful lot misery on the back of this "operation"
Current Affairs Ukraine
- Thread starter Mutzo Nutzo
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Spadge Vernacular
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This is a good analysis from LSE of Ukraines legitimacy and Russian spin on claims to the region.
blogs.lse.ac.uk
“There is no Ukraine”: Fact-Checking the Kremlin’s Version of Ukrainian History
The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership.
blogs.lse.ac.uk
davids
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Not seen one poster here suggesting the Ukraine doesn't exist. Or that there is no Ukrainian culture. Look forward to you vaulting the members who have made such posts.
It was being said by the Russian tv show on earlier posts
bluestevon
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And Britain and the USA invaded both Afhganistan and Iraq and I'm damned sure you will not have been posting 5-6 times a day with unequivocal support for everything the Iraqi and Afghan side released as happening, (yadayada whatsboutism etc).
Again I haven't said I'm siding with Russia once, have I on this entire invasion?
You staying it like it's fact I have doesn't msje it actually true. Anybody not agreeing with your very Polarised way at looking at everything happening doesn't make them a supporter of what's happening (it doesn't always have to be a USA ultimatum of if you're not with us you're against us)
I likely know a damned sight more about Ukranian culture than you I'd guess, given you're limit of knowledge likely stops with at articles posted with a ua domain name
Spadge Vernacular
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No the tone of your posts are clearly pro Ukraine and against the Russian aggressors.
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You are right again comrade, my view that Russian forces should stop killing Ukrainians and go home is wrong and based upon filthy western spin.
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My area is not specific to Ukraine but I do have colleagues at my institute advising the FCDO on areas relating to the conflict. You though are clearly biased as you have a vested interested in Russia. You need to cast your net beyond the bile being pumped out by Putins propoganda machine.
Russia should get the fook out of Ukraine and begin the process of arresting those responsible for this invasion and attrocities carried out, and pay for the damage caused. This will happen at some point regardless of people like you not calling it out.
bluestevon
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A pretty accurate analysis of the situation - I'd add that the two periods during Stalin's rule either side if the war further complicated it as it massively altered the demographic make up by effectively turning the Cossack population from the dominant ethic group to a small minority - kind of creating the vacuum then filled in the east by ethnic Russians and in the west by ethnic poles and other nearby states - borders drawn, redrawn, periods of mdny years where part of the country was defacto Russian/Polish/Other controlled.This is a good analysis from LSE of Ukraines legitimacy and Russian spin on claims to the region.
“There is no Ukraine”: Fact-Checking the Kremlin’s Version of Ukrainian History
The notion that Ukraine is not a country, but a historical part of Russia, appears to be deeply ingrained in the minds of Russian leadership.
Not quite as bad as the old Yugoslavia in terms of its issues - but was a powder keg nonetheless.
If this entire thing hadn't occured the best solution would have been a country divided into the better part of Ukraine and a seperate semi independant east with a degree of autonomy but with it's charter including prohibition of ever joining the RF, so a true autonomy not a facade of one.
Since 91 the demographic of the country in every election has shown just how divided the east / west are in pretty much irreconcilable ways. (Pro Russian leaders crapped on the west population west crapped on the eastern population).
Throw on top of that endemic corruption, the undeniable outside interference from Russia and the US for over 30 years in pretty much every government they've had and dunno if the country had a genuine chance to prosper as a truly independant nation.
bluestevon
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Very simple question, yes or no.
Should the American president who ordered the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent ones who continued it be arrested?
Should the people who altered documents on WMD face trial?
Should every American pilot or Marine who killed civilians - oft times recorded doing so, should they face war crimes tribunals?
Should the USA pay out their own pocket fir the rebuilding of Iraq rather than in fact stealing resources.
Yes or no mate?
You won't answer that much is clear
bluestevon
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And here is one directly to pertinent to Ukraine, should it work both ways, if Ukranians have killed civilians, abused or killed captured Russian military - should they face trial for war crimes. If it is shown that military commanders gave orders and politicians signed off on targeting civilians or civilian infrastructures in the east should they face war crimes trials also.?
Spadge Vernacular
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Ukraine mate.
But I don't think you will find many on here if any that supported the Iraq debacle and who would not like to see Blair and Bush face up for their actions and the points you defelect to.
But anyway.
Ukraine, lets hope that the Russian horrors are kicked out ASAP eh buddy.
Spadge Vernacular
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No one should be above the law. I don't believe anyone on here would want that.
bluestevon
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But the reality is that people are and have always been, and when the people calling for them to be held to account are themselves in that group that is effectively immune then it loses all it's credibility and stinks of hypocrisy.
The US and Ukraine both refused to sign up to the ICC - essentially not recognizing it or giving it any legal power over them, then call for it to be used against Russia - it's hypocrisy mate.
Do t believe China, India or Indeed Russia are either (Russia I believe withdrew in 2016/17
bluestevon
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I hope (although likely forlorn) that a negotiated settlement happens soon, one which protects the people of Ukraine be they pro west, pro Russian or anything else.
One that also stops by and large innocent and brave young soldiers on both sides being torn to shreds for a geopolitical power game between Russia and the US/NATO.
Ultimately that's what matters, stopping the loss of lives
Spadge Vernacular
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I am not free to operate outside of the law so expect the same for others. In this instance and to stay on topic Russia should, in my opinion, be held accountable for this invasion and crimes within this. Russian people will be better off once they break free from a cartel based autocratic leadership.
Bravo. I reckon you’ve earned your bag of spuds today comrade.
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