The Tories

[NeoNaoNeo]

What annoys me about those photos is that:

A) When the media describes them as 'hellraisers' it makes me laugh out loud and choke on whatever I'm eating
B) The guys in them always say 'oh it's so embarrasing seeing those photos again, the things you do when you're a kid' which is bollocks because they're still as proud now as they were then.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

She did get rid of free school milk though didnt she, so it wasnt all bad.

HEAR! HEAR! I used to hate those bottles of wensleydale!

 

[davek]

What a shower of nanny coddled turds. The only thing is there's a serf mentality ingrained in many people that'd make them look at that and think 'natural leaders'. Sad, but true.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

you really can't see the effect that 'she' and 'they' have had on an awful lot of people bruce, rather than deride people and tell them that they are wrong, misinformed and should've done better for themselves, try looking at it from others point of view, rather than say that they have nothing else to moan about 'in the absence of bad results'.

you obviously have no idea what she did to some of us and her lasting effects had on our lives.

it is insulting to say that we are wrong, cos basically you haven't got a clue.

a tory if there ever was one, i've done alright stuff you lot.
exactly the mentality that 'she' introduced to this land.

she can rot long before they bury her as far as i'm concerned, just like she left us all to rot.


btw, aren't politicians elected to represent our wishes ? when they aren't representing us and start to go against their electorate then they aren't doing their job. my m.p. is andy burnham and as far as i can remember the only time he has gone against the majority of his electorate is when he voted to go to iraq, it could still be the sword that he falls on, but i doubt it as the local 'tory boy' is an absolute tosser like the rest of them.

Thatcher came to power 30 years ago. I thought we were talking about Cameron or Brown. The point I was trying to make was that there was not/is not a single person in this whole thread saying why the Tories will be rubbish. It's all emotive rhetoric. The Tories are always crap, they're toffs, Cameron's a dick.

I dare say that for every proposed **** up that the Tories will make it would be easy to point to a similar **** up that Labour have already made. This underpins my political philosophy. None of them are any good. Choice every four years is no kind of choice. We deserve better. This idea that politicians are here to serve us is nonsense and ignores all biological research into the way humans work. How long ago was the expenses scam that had politicians from all parties gaming the system?

Bruce cant possibly understand, he lives in frigging London. Like Cockneys know the pain the North suffered.

The latest recession has hit white collar workers more than blue collar, with the majority of those working in the City, so that on its own is nonsense. And before its said, I know full well that many banks were bailed out, and I don't think they should have been. Failure is a crucial part of learning, and its clear that the banks havn't learnt a thing as they're handing out bonuses just as they were before. They shouldn't have been saved and neither should GM. This isn't a white collar/blue collar thing or a class thing, just a rudimentary part of how markets work.

They have zero idea of the struggle of the common man/woman/family and never will.

I say again, no politician does. Increasingly few politicians have ever have a job outside of politics. Do you think the Miliband brothers (one of whom is likely to get the Labour leaders job when Brown goes) are salf of the earth types? Both are career politicians.

I guess this thread underpins my principal concern with the political system. I disagree with many of the views expressed here as strongly as many disagree with my own views. But should either side exist within the majority then the rest have to suck it. Politics should have as little role in our lives as humanly possible. It was only yesterday that a debate was had on 1984 and the ability for power to corrupt. It's not something that happens to bad people, it's something that has the huge potential to happen to all people. Excess power in the private sector (ie a monopoly) is rightly frowned upon and the very same philosophy should exist in the state sector.

 

[davek]

This underpins my political philosophy...This idea that politicians are here to serve us is nonsense and ignores all biological research into the way humans work.

What's that, Bruce, have biologists finally isolated that 'greedy gene'.

Unbelievable.

 

[Blue 1]

"The latest recession has hit white collar workers more than blue collar, with the majority of those working in the City"

Can tell you live in the South!

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What's that, Bruce, have biologists finally isolated that 'greedy gene'.

Unbelievable.

Basic natural selection isn't it? Right down to the genetic level with the so called selfish gene, people will generally look out for themselves first, others second. Of course that isn't to say that compassion doesn't happen because of course it does, but you can use Maslow to explain that one.

Are you trying to suggest that the political world, of whatever denomination, isn't littered with examples of greed, sleaze and abuse of power?

 

[coyney]

Bruce Ihave lived under tory rule before Thatcher and in all honesty can say I never once felt that the likes of me a normal working man was treated fairly,I agree about corruption and politics going hand in hand from my own experiances as a union official. But Thatcher was and is the most hated person ever.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This simply underlines the problem doesn't it? Clearly to a great many people, she was regarded as a good leader and presumably those years were good for them. How can anyone, be it you and I or a political leader know what is best for someone elses life? Gordon Brown knows as little about my life as Thatcher did about yours. How can they possibly therefore dictate so much of how you and I's life should be run? It's a nonsense but that's essentially what our democracy is.

If Brown gets in its essentially those who support Labour saying we're alright Jack, now you have to live how we want you to. If Cameron gets in its vice versa. It's a crazy situation. In the 2005 election Labour received around 9.5 million votes, or 15% of the total UK population. Even if we take out the under 16's it still only represents around 20% of the total population. Yet that minority gets to dictate to a pretty large extent how the other 80% live. Strikes me as bonkers whichever party you support.

 

[davek]

Basic natural selection isn't it? Right down to the genetic level with the so called selfish gene, people will generally look out for themselves first, others second. Of course that isn't to say that compassion doesn't happen because of course it does, but you can use Maslow to explain that one.

Are you trying to suggest that the political world, of whatever denomination, isn't littered with examples of greed, sleaze and abuse of power?

Can you give me a visual of this selfish gene? If, as you reckon, the natural sciences have this one sorted, it wont take you too long posting one on this thread. Thanks.

 

[BadWool76]

Bruce mate please come clean .

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not sure what you mean by a visual of the gene but the idea has been around for over 20 years.

The Selfish Gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Survival of the fittest as a means of describing our reproductive urges goes back considerably further so it doesn't seem a giant leap to conclude that acquiring power/influence/wealth would be beneficial to your reproductive chances, therefore from a genetic perspective it is the natural thing to do. History shows in a great many instances how the acquisition of this power, if done to a monopolistic extent, is very bad for society, and often corrupting of the morals of the individual that acquired it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce mate please come clean .

About what?

 

[davek]

Not sure what you mean by a visual of the gene but the idea has been around for over 20 years.

The Selfish Gene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Survival of the fittest as a means of describing our reproductive urges goes back considerably further so it doesn't seem a giant leap to conclude that acquiring power/influence/wealth would be beneficial to your reproductive chances, therefore from a genetic perspective it is the natural thing to do. History shows in a great many instances how the acquisition of this power, if done to a monopolistic extent, is very bad for society, and often corrupting of the morals of the individual that acquired it.

Social biology clap trap. Natural selection has been used by some very dodgy people over the years to underline some 'inevitable' predetermined series of actions by humans...including the nazis. The thing is, though, we're part of and yet stand outside of the natural world. We have the capability to not only empathise but also to reflect and order things for the betterment of the majority and not continue some red in tooth and claw fight as per nature. We call the result of this 'society'.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Clearly Eugenics was an abomination, just as other genocides such as Bosnia and Rwanda have been recently. There was an interesting program on the topic tonight on Channel 4. It being hosted by Richard Dawkins may put some off but I suspect it'll be on 4oD at some point.

We have the capability to not only empathise but also to reflect and order things for the betterment of the majority and not continue some red in tooth and claw fight as per nature. We call the result of this 'society'.

To the contrary, I think this is a form of human arrogance. You mentioned in another thread about scrapping the monarchy, and I fully agree, but our current democracy is only marginally better. As mentioned before, Labour got to power in 2005 with just 20% of the over 16's in the UK voting for them. That isn't ordering things for the betterment of the majority. How can it be when the majority want something different? This top down governance of a group of people is no different in democracies than it is in monarchies. Both fly in the face of the countless examples of complex systems (such as human societies) forming and evolving via emergence.