The Tories

[DENNIS STEVENS]

I'm not too sure where this obsession comes from with Maggie - it's like listening to my 80 year old Mum going on about Hitler. It's 30 years since she was elected & it's 19 years since she was PM. Thatcherism was not traditional "One Nation" Conservative thinking but rather extreme right wing, however it was a time of extremes - one only has to think back to Militant, Socialist Workers Party, Michael Foot's emasculated leadership of Labour & the formation of the SDP drawing members from both main parties towards the centre ground that had been largely vacated.

 

[davek]

Bruce, I fear you live in some personal vacuum where you consider every human being is your potential enemy for scarce resources. I dont know whether to laugh or cry. Honest, mate, come out of the cave...the dinosaurs have all gone.

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

Bruce, can you talk ablout education and the lapses ans wastes therein? I have a couple of retorts, and seeing as their is a queue I thought now was as good a time as any.

 

[davek]

I'm not too sure where this obsession comes from with Maggie - it's like listening to my 80 year old Mum going on about Hitler. It's 30 years since she was elected & it's 19 years since she was PM. Thatcherism was not traditional "One Nation" Conservative thinking but rather extreme right wing, however it was a time of extremes - one only has to think back to Militant, Socialist Workers Party, Michael Foot's emasculated leadership of Labour & the formation of the SDP drawing members from both Main parties towards the centre ground that had been largely vacated.

Agree with that DENNIS. It went beyond her. I hope all the civil servants and policy makers like Mitford and Hayek she relied on, and all the corporate boot boys like McGregor, and the media owners like Murdoch, and the z-list celebrities who creamed themselves over the "resurgent Britania", and the coppers who took the coin manning the picket lines, and the scabs who made the industrial policy possible, and the lumpen proletariat who voted them in all get there's some day.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

Agree with that DENNIS. It went beyond her. I hope all the civil servants and policy makers like Mitford and Hayek she relied on, and all the corporate boot boys like McGregor, and the media owners like Murdoch, and the z-list celebrities who creamed themselves over the "resurgent Britania", and the coppers who took the coin manning the picket lines, and the scabs who made the industrial policy possible, and the lumpen proletariat who voted them in all get there's some day.

You have to bear in mind that, just as we are all bemoaning the lack of a decent choice for the forthcoming General Election, the electorate then had an even worse choice : Thatcherite Conservatives or a Labour party in even more disarray in the late '70's & early '80's than the Conservatives have been in the late '90's & early 2000's. Understandably, many were attracted by Thatchers image of strong leadership & a clear sense of direction. Others, as mentioned, sought to find new political alternatives.

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

The lesser of two evils is still evil shocker.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Bruce, I fear you live in some personal vacuum where you consider every human being is your potential enemy for scarce resources. I dont know whether to laugh or cry. Honest, mate, come out of the cave...the dinosaurs have all gone.

Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion but if that's your reasoning against the concept of emergence (or chaos, give it a name) then I suppose all I can do is accept it.

Bruce, can you talk ablout education and the lapses ans wastes therein? I have a couple of retorts, and seeing as their is a queue I thought now was as good a time as any.

If you have retorts already lined up it would seem a rather futile discussion to have wouldn't it?

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

Not quite sure how you come to that conclusion but if that's your reasoning against the concept of emergence (or chaos, give it a name) then I suppose all I can do is accept it.



If you have retorts already lined up it would seem a rather futile discussion to have wouldn't it?

Firstly I was not lining p to be quite the pedigree tw*t it may have first appeared. Secondly, the ideas about education and how it is taken for granted is where my unrest lies. I cannot trawl your previous posts but have been considering a few of them since. Not about slinging mud or looking clever, just an angle I believe you did not see.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree that education is largely taken for granted by so many in Britain. It's a terrible waste because understanding of the world and wonder at its complexity is something that all should cherish.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts though.

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

I agree that education is largely taken for granted by so many in Britain. It's a terrible waste because understanding of the world and wonder at its complexity is something that all should cherish.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts though.

I am waiting for the green light of the monies wasted on those that 'dont want to learn/learn' and how those monies could be used elsewhere. Specific to waste and the holding back of others. Coupled with the financial easing to the tax payer as a percentage would not be schooled. See where this is going?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's an interesting one. I've been reading a lot recently about motivation and what role feedback has in that. It was largely in the area of bonuses and whether financial incentives actually motivate people, with science seeming to suggest it doesn't.

Instinctively I think the government have an odd position on this side of things. For instance parents seem to play a huge role in the educational success of their children, yet the government, whilst not encouraging single parents, do little to discourage it either. As an adopted child my parents had to rigorously prove they were fit, financially and personally, to raise me before I was handed over. With so much at stake, both for parent and child, what can be done to encourage people to think more before bonking without a rubber? Do current policies help or hinder this?

Likewise with post-education. Again it would seem a sensible goal to encourage people as much as possible to educate themselves and therefore (hopefully) develop a good career, be productive members of society etc. Yet in taxation terms the successful are taxed more and the unsuccessful subsidised.

Going back to the start though, it seems questionable whether financial factors play a part in motivation, and if they don't, what other tools does a government have to improve things?

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

It's an interesting one. I've been reading a lot recently about motivation and what role feedback has in that. It was largely in the area of bonuses and whether financial incentives actually motivate people, with science seeming to suggest it doesn't.

Instinctively I think the government have an odd position on this side of things. For instance parents seem to play a huge role in the educational success of their children, yet the government, whilst not encouraging single parents, do little to discourage it either. As an adopted child my parents had to rigorously prove they were fit, financially and personally, to raise me before I was handed over. With so much at stake, both for parent and child, what can be done to encourage people to think more before bonking without a rubber? Do current policies help or hinder this?

Likewise with post-education. Again it would seem a sensible goal to encourage people as much as possible to educate themselves and therefore (hopefully) develop a good career, be productive members of society etc. Yet in taxation terms the successful are taxed more and the unsuccessful subsidised.

Going back to the start though, it seems questionable whether financial factors play a part in motivation, and if they don't, what other tools does a government have to improve things?

What a Pandora's box that is. Science can prove allsorts, lets not choke there. I agree parentS have an important role, why then are men second class citizens in the eyes of the law regarding their children? My take on single parentage and the 'underclass' are a touch strong, and not for here. As for adoption, I now see something I did not, I am sorry for my forceful headon approach. Are such approvals required for 'natural' parents? We both know the answer. As for unprotected sex, it is as old as time itself, give the latest generation some hope, somewhere to go, a goal, a life, something to strive for. Provide desolation and worthlessness and they will escape into alcoholism and drugs - where allegedly a lot of teenage pregnancy is rife. My entire bug-bear with your stance has been, if you expect parents to suddenly pay for their childrens education, what happens to the poor buggers born to Karen Matthews? A trollop that cares more about her next fix of ***s and booze than her numerous children. And if financial reward is not the goal, why do those without cite it as reason, and those with it flaunt it and use it so mercilessly?

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

being a single parent doesn't carry the stigma that it once did, i know plenty of single parents who work their trollies off to provide for their kids, it's not their fault if they picked a wrong-un to start with, who then does one and never provides. sure they will get help from the state, but if they didn't and the one who's left them won't chip in, then who suffers ?
some will take from the state as the absent parent cant be relied on, from the state they get their money every month whereas if the absent parent doesn't pay up then they have to do without. it's those that have done one that need to be made to pay and criticised and not necessarily the single parent.

of course there are those that see having kids as a way to an income, but the single parents i know work hard and provide as best they can. not all of these are female either.

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

That read F A G S and booze. No need to be *** out.

 

[Reidy's Bottle Of Grecian]

That read F A G S and booze. No need to be *** out.

homophobe