Current Affairs The Labour Party

[AsiaAsia82]

Who are you counting as an extremist then?
And do they all write them off? What do you mean by this?

In my view, I meant in terms of winning elections as the ‘centre’ who really decide elections see something too far left or right it responds in its voting.
Example would be Corbyn not singing the national anthem would be seen as a bit extreme for a potential UK Prime minister, for what is a very pseudo-patriotic country. That was an own goal if he wanted to be elected.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

But they're not both political extremes. The further left of the Labour Party are not an extreme and it's very silly to say it is

I think extremism is a scale. It depends where you are on the scale that determines if someone else is extremist. It’s all relative.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

The far left that weren’t in charge for when Scotland was lost, or when millions of votes in the north were lost?

Scotland was lost to a nationalist party. (are they national socialists? Or is that a dirty phrase)
The same in England where UKIP and the tories are nationalists and Plaid growth in Wales.
There seems a general move to the right

 

[Twinkletoes123]

Scotland was lost to a nationalist party. (are they national socialists? Or is that a dirty phrase)
The same in England where UKIP and the tories are nationalists and Plaid growth in Wales.
There seems a general move to the right

Plaid are not right wing.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

Scotland was lost to a nationalist party. (are they national socialists? Or is that a dirty phrase)
The same in England where UKIP and the tories are nationalists and Plaid growth in Wales.
There seems a general move to the right

Its more nuanced than that, but people just want to use the simple (and extremely dated) left vs. right paradigm.

 

[leslad]

Why do people insist that Corbyn’s Labour was ‘far left’. There was no far left.
View attachment 126542

Overton window - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[dannyboy]

If you had said about twenty five year ago that's what would happen , and labour would lose scotland and huge chunks of the north they would have thought you had gone crazy.
Last three elections we have gone into elections with leaders who most thought outside of the party were unelectable, and they were right.
The far left have all but killed this party and yet they want more of the same .
Need a complete change of course before it's to late, that's if it isnt already..

Every decent policy that could improve people's lives is decried as far left these days. You want a party that acts as a tribute act to the Tories? Fine but under 30s like me will desert it and there won't be any appreciation from these so called red wall seats either.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

Plaid are not right wing.

Does nationalist mean right wing? It probably does in most cases, but I agree Plaid aren’t right wing.

 

[JobForTheMoyes]

I don't think everyone is, I can only take it from my experience.

People in the cities, people around my age, generally, they still vote Labour. I think the 'middle ground' has been lost to this current Tory party because they have a way (mainly through lying, it seems) of winning those voters over.

I don't think the Labour voter that I thought of when I grew up is now the everyday Labour voter, is my point. I think those have been lost. And while there's nothing wrong with a party having different sections of society start to vote for them (that's what you want at the end of the day) they seem to have, for one reason or another, lost a bit of that foundation and base votership.

I think they need a massive revamp. I was willing to give Starmer time but he's about as useful as a marzipan dildo, as a great, fictional man once said. But we've seen Corbyn didn't work either, despite being a good bloke.

Tossing aside the patriotic working class has been disastrous for Labour. I am not sure exactly how they can win them back.

Labour has firm founding principles, whereas the Conservatives have always been more of an evolutionary party, so change is not so difficult for them.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

Its more nuanced than that, but people just want to use the simple (and extremely dated) left vs. right paradigm.

Yes agree, that’s where we are falling down in elections, still wanting to be seen to be left wing.
We should be making socialism the centre ground.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

Tossing aside the patriotic working class has been disastrous for Labour. I am not sure exactly how they can win them back.

Labour has firm founding principles, whereas the Conservatives have always been more of an evolutionary party, so change is not so difficult for them.

Agree, we’re now seen as the unpatriotic non-working class party.

 

[peteblue]

Hartlepool: 15,000 voted for Corbyn in 2019; 8,000 voted for Starmer in 2021.

Let that sink in.

Mr Forensic has HALVED Labour's vote.

But he did it forensically...I’m not sure why anyone is surprised at what has happened........

 

[Tubey]

Agree, we’re now seen as the unpatriotic non-working class party.

It's worse than that - Labour are seen as the London bubble 'woke' party. Starmer taking a knee was disastrous - the amount of people who went 'screw that guy' off the back of it was amazing.

They represent about one in every hundred people in the UK. Every other vote are basically 'hangers on' who vote Labour regardless every election - the people who actually vote Labour because they want to is next to nil.

Starmer is a symptom, not the cause. Hamstrung by the wants of his party membership, without the leadership ability to break free from the shackles of it.

He's now politically wounded to the extent that he's done for. He has no political capital to gut the party to the extent that's required to make Labour viable again.

The usual suspects will deny it time and time again, but the party has been dying since Ed beat David, been dying quicker since they changed the leadership election rules and Corbyn got in, and now it's on its' deathbed.

 

[evilwebby]

Last few pages pretty much sums up Labour right now.

They don't really know what or who they stand for. They have no firm idea of what their problems are and why they can't engage the electorate in a meaningful way. They don't know if their leader is doing a better or worse job than their last disastrous leader. They don't know whether they should try to move more towards the center ground or further away from it.

they're run by people who are professional politicians who have never having worked outside of politics - no wonder they don't have a clue how they real world works and have trouble connecting with people.

 

[Tubey]

Last few pages pretty much sums up Labour right now.

They don't really know what or who they stand for. They have no firm idea of what their problems are and why they can't engage the electorate in a meaningful way. They don't know if their leader is doing a better or worse job than their last disastrous leader. They don't know whether they should try to move more towards the center ground or further away from it.

they're run by people who are professional politicians who have never having worked outside of politics - no wonder they don't have a clue how they real world works and have trouble connecting with people.

Absolutely spot on mate.

The answer can't be "go more left" though, it just can't. How much more of a clear lesson do they need - they haven't won an election on a left wing ticket for half a century. It's not doable.