I tell you what, all that bashing of Jeremy Corbyn and lying about the Labour membership has really worked out well for Starmer and his cronies hasn't it?
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I tell you what, all that bashing of Jeremy Corbyn and lying about the Labour membership has really worked out well for Starmer and his cronies hasn't it?
Do what the Tories do tell them what they want to hear , get in power and do what you want.
No use having strong policies if nobody votes for them , we need to play the elections game a lot better.
tsubaki
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TBF "nationalism" is not really a left-right issue, at least in Scotland and Wales. The SNP and Plaid are more left wing than Labour most of the time, certainly more than "establishment" Labour are.
tsubaki
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The problem there is "electable" - only the commentariat, the media and the politicians get to determine that, and they'll only deem someone electable if its something that doesn't upset their applecart.
Billy Dean
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The part where he gets to what Labour should do is hilarious
Lie to them as well , tories do it all the time .
They put the boot in when were in power, I am sick to death of the Tories , literally have nothing I wouldn't do to win agaist them.
They have fought 2 elections in my lifetimes on a left wing ticket though. One of them, saw the biggest rise in the Labour vote in decades. The other was a sh1tshow for a variety of reasons. The rowing back on Brexit, the internal sabotage of the party from those now in charge, the lack of leadership from those governing etc.
What I will say is this though, 40% of people don't vote. Labour's challenge is to get those people to want to vote. An approach that essentially tries to recreate the 90's, by getting a few moderate tories to vote for you because you will reign spending in and not rise taxes is not going to get many votes from Tories, nor is it going to win labour voters back. All it will do is depress turnout of Labour inclined people.
How you motivate that mass of people to vote is obviously an interesting question. However I really wouldn't start from the point that you can't move left, that you need to demonise the previous leader who motivated lots of those people who were opreviously apolitical, and make an enemy of the ordinary working class people who joined the party to try and help.
The Tories have just moved so far to the left economically, and are annihilating Labour. There's sort of a lesson in there.
Azza
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Not surprising, people are idiots. Oh wah wah can't call people idiots. Well they are, if you care about health, policing, public infrastructure and transport, social care you don't vote Conservative. It's as simple as that.
I work for an emergency service, ~£38m budget cut over the past 10 years. Operational staff is probably down about 700 people in that time. Yet I know people at work who vote Conservative and will have voted Tory this time around even with Grenfell!
My partner is a teacher, her school does everyone's PPA on a Friday afternoon so essentially the children are in half day on a Friday. Their budget shortfall for 2020 is estimated at £130k. She knows other teachers who vote Conservative there.
Billy Dean
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The problem Labour have had, is they had an olive branch of rejuvination under Jeremy Corbyn. To break with a failing model, that is losing everywhere in Europe. They had a chance to become a democratic, mass party, based around a fairly moderate economic project with a bit of pacifism thrown in. Corbyn was never, and never will be massively left wing. The tories spending policies under this administration have gone far beyond what Labour under Corbyn would ever have dreamed of- and you know what the country hasn't imploded. Because unfortunately free market capitalism essentially just doesn't work, and you need the state to step in at various times and bail it out.
I digress slightly. The principle for most of these professional people, that ordinary people might even have a voice in politics was completely unpalatable for them. I knocked plenty of doors, organised canvasses for Labour in the last couple of elections. Always after I had done my regular job in the evenings. And in honesty all you got from the status quo was that you were an utter scumbag because you held any views that may have been slightly to the left of Tony Blair. They wouldn't have made it more clear I wasn't welcome once Corbyn went.
They've treated Corbyn, and the members abysmally and think they know best. Starmer just screams of it as well. Never have I seen a bloke who is so ordinary think he is so brilliant. And that resonates all the way down. They think because they won a couple of elections in the 90's when the tory vote base imploded that they are gods gift to political startegy, yet omit all the other elections they're royally messed up.
I'm pretty much a Labour man to my core, but those in charge of the party deserve all they get. Most of them haven't got a clue.
davek
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I fully expected it. An utter phoney trying to second guess what a load of mill town nazis are thinking and failing to deliver the authentic message of corporate-fascism they want to hear and which they do hear from the Tories.
dannyboy
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I had this exact experience myself. They might have won those three elections but by the time they'd left power they'd tainted the Labour brand so badly they'd managed to alienate their heartlands.
What you're seeing all around these northern towns now is IMO the legacy of New Labour. A party that did nothing to better these people's lives. It couldn't be better summed up than by that quote from Mandelson when he said, "they've got nowhere else to go." Well didn't all the people of Hartlepool prove him wrong today.
davek
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SpongeBob brown shoes
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