Current Affairs The Labour Party

[davek]

Aye, your obvious Putin love in

...erm....?

Mate, check out my posts. The invasion was the cause and I've said so. The issue now is the solution to this mess. Of course Putin is responsible.

Putin is responsible and the Russians need to be out of the territory they seized

How much more plain can I get.

The only thing to discuss is how we reach that point. But you and Spadger are immovable on any peace deal, and I find that absurd and I find it disturbing as tens more thousands of lives will be lost without a peace deal.

This isn't a computer game. Real lives - real husbands and sons - are getting killed on an industrial scale here.

I'm not the issue here, the Ukraine-Russian War is. How about you and me and everyone else stick to that...

Putin is to blame for all this. Said it till I'm blue in the face. Russia is the aggressor and needs to get out of the positions it's held since Feb 2022.

But if you think that Zelensky and his crony regime get a free ride - forget it. They are preventing a settlement to this carnage now and they need to go...if only the great defender of democracy would allow an election in Ukraine....

Of course Putin and his cronies are repellent. Everyone knows that. But many are under the mistaken impression that Zelensky is a whiter than white hero when in reality he's just another a venal corrupt eastern European politician.

I'd advise you to pick up and read any book that gives a fairly decent commentary on the way markets expanded into the vacuum left by the collapse of the former Stalinist states.

If you did then you'd see how the ground was prepared for the rise of an autocrat.

To attempt to ignore or downgrade western governments and western corporations impact on the conditions that brought a thug like Putin through to power is astounding and a little bit Orwellian.

He wouldn't make that sacrifice - he's a hypocrite.

There's loads of kids on either side of this war - Ukrainians and Russians - getting themselves over the borders and dodging this carnage - I don't blame them one little bit. Imagine fighting in war to further the interests of Putin or NSATO.

Unbelievable. I'd scarper in a flash.

Yeah, apart from stating umpteen times that Putin is a thug and Russian needs to leave Ukraine...

He has a point alright, the one on his head.

I reserve the right to criticise the corrupt regime of Zelensky, and that seems to be the issue.

I think the lack of balance lies elsewhere: people who just post blogs from eastern European war games 'experts' who say stuff like "200 Orcs KIA!!!" and offer zero MSM stories whatsoever.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

...erm....?

6 out of 138 ish

 

[spectateur]

He will get away with it for the most part on this subject. As long as he more or less treads the same direction, that is Hamas bad and Israel must be allowed to defend itself. Basically stick to American line... If he went near a Corbyn principle on this he would be brought down before election. r
Anyone believe our PM or main opposistion leader can actually influence matters in this conflict is frankly deluded.

"Hamas is Bad and Israel must be allowed to defend itself"
"Basically stick to the American line '
Starmer obviously preparing himself for the prime minister's job as
America's lap dog.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Yeah, what I'm saying is that in all my decades of living in Liverpool, Palestine has never been a topic that I've been engaged with or heard. It most likely will come up I'm sure due to the current atrocities. I think it's fair to say that it has been a fringe, activist passion.

Hamas actions have brought it to the front though. Where thar leads F knows, but it Gaza is clearly now a pawn in a much wider game.

Think you’d be surprised. Watch the SNP pull back votes in Scotland due to their stance on Palestine. Whilst it may not be a domestic political hot topic for many, for a lot of left wing people on the fence, who would vote for labour to get rid of the tories, it is just further cementing the idea that labour aren’t far off from being the same beast.

 

[davek]

6 out of 138 ish

Bankrupt.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

...erm....?

If you were not a national socialist you'd have descended on Putins imperialistic invasion from day one - but you did not and are not.

You are also doing the Tories PR work as well as Putins.

You are rancid mate and stink the CA out.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Think you’d be surprised. Watch the SNP pull back votes in Scotland due to their stance on Palestine. Whilst it may not be a domestic political hot topic for many, for a lot of left wing people on the fence, whosaying would vote for labour to get rid of the tories, it is just further cementing the idea that labour aren’t far off from being the same beast.

I'm just saying that in my many years bevvying in Liverpool I've not heard anyone bring up palestine. Not once.

 

[edge]

Think you’d be surprised. Watch the SNP pull back votes in Scotland due to their stance on Palestine. Whilst it may not be a domestic political hot topic for many, for a lot of left wing people on the fence, who would vote for labour to get rid of the tories, it is just further cementing the idea that labour aren’t far off from being the same beast.

People will be more bothered about the likes of the cost of living or whatever the latest scandal is at the time.
Palestine will be way down the list for the majority, unless it starts to have any effect here , terrorist act's ect.
Even then the right wing would cash in more than the labour party.

 

[edge]

I think your problem, Dave, is that you are a Communist with National Social tendencies, innit. The vast majority will never see the world from a segment perspective, IMO.

Don't know about Davek .
But that sums me up half the time .
At least I openly admit it thought

 

[JimmyJeffers]

People will be more bothered about the likes of the cost of living or whatever the latest scandal is at the time.
Palestine will be way down the list for the majority, unless it starts to have any effect here , terrorist act's ect.
Even then the right wing would cash in more than the labour party.

I’m not so sure you know. The cost of living, housing crisis etc won’t end with a labour government and most people realise that. For many on the left, Labour’s stance is simply adding to suspicions.

 

[edge]

I’m not so sure you know. The cost of living, housing crisis etc won’t end with a labour government and most people realise that. For many on the left, Labour’s stance is simply adding to suspicions.

Those on the left already have suspicion of starmer anyway
He is weighing the sides up and looks to be calculating that the current stance is more in line to get him elected.

 

[Thomasc]

Hamas need eradicating.

This isn’t the answer though. This is trying to crack a nut with a sledgehammer. As it’s also against international law, it’s also disgusting.

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

Don't know about Davek .
But that sums me up half the time .
At least I openly admit it thought

Tbf, @davek should be a turnip.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Starmer is suggesting through this behaviour that he's a career politician and not really anyone of any substance, which I don't think most of us will be surprised by. Sadly to be "electable" you have to be anodyne to one degree or another when you're the "left" candidate because the electorate seems to only really accept that right wing politicians can have actual personalities for the most part

I do personally think it's weird that so much pressure is being put on the opposition to try and get this ceasefire set up instead of the party that, you know, is actually in government though

Labour can say whatever they want, it's the Tories who are in power and nothing will get done unless they choose to do it

Yes, it would be nice for Starmer to actually put his arse on the line somewhat and try to get something done here, but ultimately Sunak is the one who needs to get in the room with Biden and the Israeli government representatives to try and iron this all out

Starmer is smart enough to know that the media are sharpening their knives just waiting for a chance to get him on something right now, so he's playing the game and treading lightly. It's disappointing, and a symptom of how ruined our political system has become, but I understand why he's doing it

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Those on the left already have suspicion of starmer anyway
He is weighing the sides up and looks to be calculating that the current stance is more in line to get him elected.

I am inclined to agree. Will put the brakes on any hope of a surge in Labour votes in Scotland anyways.