Current Affairs The House of Lords

[zzr45]

Don't change the subject. Do you really think I would be fooled by your side-tracking of what I replied to originally...?

The point in question was 'closing our doors'. Now you want to talk about tariffs. Stick to the point.

Nobody is trying to change the subject. If you struggle with the concept of how tariffs affect trade, then don’t even bother. I’m embarrassed for you.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

There is more to life than those two things, Bruce, and well you know it.

At every turn you throw up the 'agrarian' argument. See ya next April, matey!

They're two of the sectors highlighted in the industrial strategy. Cars are another. Where do you think the next generation of autonomous vehicles will be developed? The fact is that practically every bit of industrial strategy, be it in advanced manufacturing, precision medicine, smart cities or whatever, are all clustered around universities.

 

[peteblue]

I'll tell you what. Have a look at the industrial strategy outlined by the government. Clusters such as life sciences and artificial intelligence are generally focused around world class universities, which are all located in cities. I know you don't like that fact and think we can thrive by returning to an agrarian society, but it's not really in keeping with reality.



"Cardiff has an ethnically diverse population due to its past trading connections, post-war immigration and the large numbers of foreign students who attend university in the city."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Cardiff#Nationality

Granted, it's not London levels, but it is by far the most diverse area in Wales and followed the trend of most of the UK, of areas with most diversity voting remain, and those with least diversity voting leave.

Cardiff is no more ‘international’ than Liverpool.....

 

[peteblue]

Ah. That’s very idealistic though isn’t it? Tariffs get applied and trade levels stay the same. Except that won’t exactly happen will it? We’ll be paying more for stuff we want and need (as noted by the BBC yesterday- we get about a third of our food from the EU) and exports could possibly drop.

Why exactly would the EU give us tariff free trade? It’s a bit like asking for a divorce and asking your missus to keep making your bacon butty of a morning.

Because it is to their advantage. All along I’ve said that I’m really not bothered either way, free trade or WTO, whatever they want......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Cardiff is no more ‘international’ than Liverpool.....

Which also voted remain.

 

[peteblue]

Which also voted remain.

So the conclusion you have finally reached is that cities voted Remain and that Cardiff is a city, excellent work......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So the conclusion you have finally reached is that cities voted Remain and that Cardiff is a city, excellent work......

People exposed to diversity voted remain. People with higher education levels voted remain. People whose prospects are better voted remain. All of those things are higher in cities, and yes, cities overwhelmingly voted remain, and yes, before people froth at the mouth, I know that is a general statement and that there will be smart people outside of cities, and indeed smart people within cities that voted to leave.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Nobody is trying to change the subject. If you struggle with the concept of how tariffs affect trade, then don’t even bother. I’m embarrassed for you.

Very condescending of you.

Let's go back to the start,eh?
Your post #23:
"...the fact that we are willing to close our doors on our biggest trading partner..."

I took you up on the matter of your saying 'close our doors'. You never made a direct reply, but moved the issue on to tariffs.

You say, 'Nobody is trying to change the subject'. Well, that is exactly what you have done. Changed the subject from 'closing the door' to 'tariffs'. The two are completely different things.

Actually, I'm embarrassed for you, not being able to admit that something you have posted is totally incorrect. And if you cannot accept that, then I, in turn, would suggest you 'don't even bother' any further, because you will not address the point of yours I challenged in the first place...

 

[peteblue]

People exposed to diversity voted remain. People with higher education levels voted remain. People whose prospects are better voted remain. All of those things are higher in cities, and yes, cities overwhelmingly voted remain, and yes, before people froth at the mouth, I know that is a general statement and that there will be smart people outside of cities, and indeed smart people within cities that voted to leave.

So smart people voted to Remain and Leave, people in cities voted to Remain and Leave, people outside of cities voted Remain and Leave. If people who are exposed to diversity voted Remain, how come some city people voted Leave, were they not exposed to diversity. The people outside of cities, you know the ones with east Europeans picking fruit and vegetables, also had both Remain and Leave voters who obviously have never experienced diversity. Or maybe cities voted to Remain because they were predominantly Labour voters, as cities usually do, and the countryside voted Leave because they are predominantly Conservative voters. Now outside of London, most wealthy educated people live outside of the cities and in the countryside, but that would undermine your second and third points....do you know what Bruce I really wouldn’t like to draw too many conclusions based on your ‘observations’.......

 

[zzr45]

Very condescending of you.

Let's go back to the start,eh?
Your post #23:
"...the fact that we are willing to close our doors on our biggest trading partner..."

I took you up on the matter of your saying 'close our doors'. You never made a direct reply, but moved the issue on to tariffs.

You say, 'Nobody is trying to change the subject'. Well, that is exactly what you have done. Changed the subject from 'closing the door' to 'tariffs'. The two are completely different things.

Actually, I'm embarrassed for you, not being able to admit that something you have posted is totally incorrect. And if you cannot accept that, then I, in turn, would suggest you 'don't even bother' any further, because you will not address the point of yours I challenged in the first place...

Haha no mate. You can’t see how that having willing left a trading bloc and opening ourselves up to tariffs that it could be considered us shutting the door. They are the same thing. On ignore you go.

 

[zzr45]

Because it is to their advantage. All along I’ve said that I’m really not bothered either way, free trade or WTO, whatever they want......

Is it? Or is it not more advantageous for the EU to put tariffs on incoming goods to prevent undercutting of its members industries?

 

[peteblue]

Is it? Or is it not more advantageous for the EU to put tariffs on incoming goods to prevent undercutting of its members industries?

So you are suggesting that further protectionism is the way forward for the EU. Another excellent reason for getting away from this sclerotic underperforming mausoleum........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So smart people voted to Remain and Leave, people in cities voted to Remain and Leave, people outside of cities voted Remain and Leave. If people who are exposed to diversity voted Remain, how come some city people voted Leave, were they not exposed to diversity. The people outside of cities, you know the ones with east Europeans picking fruit and vegetables, also had both Remain and Leave voters who obviously have never experienced diversity. Or maybe cities voted to Remain because they were predominantly Labour voters, as cities usually do, and the countryside voted Leave because they are predominantly Conservative voters. Now outside of London, most wealthy educated people live outside of the cities and in the countryside, but that would undermine your second and third points....do you know what Bruce I really wouldn’t like to draw too many conclusions based on your ‘observations’.......

There isn't a single part of the country that had 100% swing either way, so I'm not sure what value there is in only assigning value to areas where no diversity exists. With any attempt to understand things on a mass scale, you can only ever use aggregated trends, and when you do that you find what I've described. More people in cities vote remain than leave. More people with degrees vote remain than leave.

It's not perfect, of course, but what is the alternative? You yourself have been guilty numerous times of assuming that all leave voters follow your own beliefs in a very open Britain, when no attempt to understand what leave voters actually want supports that view. People talk about the 'will of the people' a lot, but then reject any attempt to understand what that will actually is. It's become a catch all cliche that serves whatever purpose you want it to.

 

[peteblue]

There isn't a single part of the country that had 100% swing either way, so I'm not sure what value there is in only assigning value to areas where no diversity exists. With any attempt to understand things on a mass scale, you can only ever use aggregated trends, and when you do that you find what I've described. More people in cities vote remain than leave. More people with degrees vote remain than leave.

It's not perfect, of course, but what is the alternative? You yourself have been guilty numerous times of assuming that all leave voters follow your own beliefs in a very open Britain, when no attempt to understand what leave voters actually want supports that view. People talk about the 'will of the people' a lot, but then reject any attempt to understand what that will actually is. It's become a catch all cliche that serves whatever purpose you want it to.

Not really Bruce, I would guess that all 17.4M leave voters had a slightly different reason for wanting out, but like it or not they happened to be the majority. We now have a very vociferous minority attempting to subvert or even reverse the result of a national referendum which I find disgraceful.....

 

[Old Blue 2]

Haha no mate. You can’t see how that having willing left a trading bloc and opening ourselves up to tariffs that it could be considered us shutting the door. They are the same thing. On ignore you go.

You can put me on ignore. Big deal! Hilarious.

Putting me on ignore is the final nail in the coffin of you not admitting that your posting saying "...close our doors..." is utterly ludicrous. Come back when you can enter into a sensible discussion and not post total rubbish like 'close our doors', and say that phrase is the same as 'tariffs'. Logic has totally bypassed you here.