Current Affairs The House of Lords

[Old Blue 2]

Its a forum mate, not an echo chamber.

I continue to be amazed that seemingly intelligent and experienced folk have clung to stuff the likes of Boris and Farage have spouted.

House of Lords? Reckon its a fine revising chamber on balance, though I get why it makes some fume.

1. I agree

2. I've not clung to what Boris nor Farage have spouted. Equally, I have not clung to what Cameron spouted, nor Osborne, nor Carney. Surprising as it may seem, I actually think for myself. However, I would not dare to say I speak for anyone else on this matter.

3. My take is that as, ultimately, whatever it comes up with can be over-ridden by the Commons, its function is defunct. It is not a brake on any legislation if the will of the ruling party is to push through what it wants without amendment. In that sense, it has no use whatsoever.

 

[roydo]

1. I agree

2. I've not clung to what Boris nor Farage have spouted. Equally, I have not clung to what Cameron spouted, nor Osborne, nor Carney. Surprising as it may seem, I actually think for myself. However, I would not dare to say I speak for anyone else on this matter.

3. My take is that as, ultimately, whatever it comes up with can be over-ridden by the Commons, its function is defunct. It is not a brake on any legislation if the will of the ruling party is to push through what it wants without amendment. In that sense, it has no use whatsoever.

Fair response.

I share your view of the Lords. To a degree. I think a revising chamber is good, but final say should always be with the elected chamber.

I dont for a second think your views are anything but yours. But your assumption that you couldnt understand why others didnt share them, to me, was rather at odds with your obvious intellect.

 

[Eggs]

I would get rid of any peer who has previously been a politician........

..some decent ex-politicians out there, Tessa Jowell a fine example.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Well, Ford WOULD say that, wouldn't they. Read it up, Bruce. The fact is, they closed the UK operation. The work done in the UK operation was moved to the location in the non-EU country. And Ford took up a loan from the EU to do so.

And to say this: "...They're either stupid or deliberately setting out to mislead..." A disgraceful thing to say. You are a disgrace for saying that, but you will get away with it being a Mod. Take a good look at yourself, Bruce...

I continue to be amazed by those on here who, through their postings, appear to believe that our continuing membership of the EU is a good thing, and that we (the UK) are beneficient recipients of good things from the EU. Go ask Cameron what he came back with from the EU before the Referendum. He came back with 'jack', but tried to dress it up as some kind of massive gain...

Some facts for you. Ford stopped making passenger vehicles in 2002. The Ford plant in Otosan opened in 2009 and coincided with a reduction in employment at the Southampton factory to just 500 (from a peak of 4,500). Ford announced in 2011 that production of the Transit would continue at Southampton for two more years, after which the plant would be shut. All workers employed at the plant were redeployed elsewhere in Ford UK facilities or were given early redundancy. The European Investment Bank loaned Ford Otosan money in 2012, specifically to support the development of the new Transit and Cargo vehicles.

So yes, people shouting that "the EU are taking our jobs" are either stupid and don't understand the facts or are deliberately misleading people to score points against the EU. And for the record, in both this post and the one you've quoted, I'm aiming that at the politicians and journalists who should know better.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Fair response.

I share your view of the Lords. To a degree. I think a revising chamber is good, but final say should always be with the elected chamber.

I dont for a second think your views are anything but yours. But your assumption that you couldnt understand why others didnt share them, to me, was rather at odds with your obvious intellect.

1

2 I would have no problem with a revising chamber, if what that chamber revised always applied. But with it being able to be over-ridden, then it does beg the question of its purpose.

3 My point was about the fact that the instance I gave showed that the EU was in fact not acting in the interest of a member-state. It was assiting a non-member state while ostensibly taking employment away from a member state - the direct correlation being the specific work moving out of the UK to a non-member state funded by an EU loan. One may also cite the UK being told by the EU that it had to seek permission from the EU before it could financially intervene in the Port Talbot steelworks matter. Think about that for a minute. We had to request permission from the other 27 member states before we could assist something on our own soil.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Some facts for you. Ford stopped making passenger vehicles in 2002. The Ford plant in Otosan opened in 2009 and coincided with a reduction in employment at the Southampton factory to just 500 (from a peak of 4,500). Ford announced in 2011 that production of the Transit would continue at Southampton for two more years, after which the plant would be shut. All workers employed at the plant were redeployed elsewhere in Ford UK facilities or were given early redundancy. The European Investment Bank loaned Ford Otosan money in 2012, specifically to support the development of the new Transit and Cargo vehicles.

So yes, people shouting that "the EU are taking our jobs" are either stupid and don't understand the facts or are deliberately misleading people to score points against the EU. And for the record, in both this post and the one you've quoted, I'm aiming that at the politicians and journalists who should know better.

And after your diatribe, the EU could have used that loan to provide for Ford jobs in the UK, but I don't suppose that occurred to you or the EU for a second, eh Bruce...?

You still don't get the overall picture, do you?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Well, Ford WOULD say that, wouldn't they. Read it up, Bruce. The fact is, they closed the UK operation. The work done in the UK operation was moved to the location in the non-EU country. And Ford took up a loan from the EU to do so.

And to say this: "...They're either stupid or deliberately setting out to mislead..." A disgraceful thing to say. You are a disgrace for saying that, but you will get away with it being a Mod. Take a good look at yourself, Bruce...

I continue to be amazed by those on here who, through their postings, appear to believe that our continuing membership of the EU is a good thing, and that we (the UK) are beneficient recipients of good things from the EU. Go ask Cameron what he came back with from the EU before the Referendum. He came back with 'jack', but tried to dress it up as some kind of massive gain...

You should take your own advice....

Ford started winding back production at the Southampton plant back in 2008, by the time it closed, it was down to one shift and employed only 500 people, which is less than half of what it employed in its pomp.

The loan to Ford Otosan in Turkey was in 2012, and btw Ford Motor Company doesn’t even own Ford Otosan, it has a 41% stake with Koc holdings the Turkish conglomerate also owning 41%.

The decision to relocate the production was due to lower costs in Turkey, simple as.

 

[Old Blue 2]

You should take your own advice....

Ford started winding back production at the Southampton plant back in 2008, by the time it closed, it was down to one shift and employed only 500 people, which is less than half of what it employed in its pomp.

The loan to Ford Otosan in Turkey was in 2012, and btw Ford Motor Company doesn’t even own Ford Otosan, it has a 41% stake with Koc holdings the Turkish conglomerate also owning 41%.

The decision to relocate the production was due to lower costs in Turkey, simple as.

See my last reply...

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

And after your diatribe, the EU could have used that loan to provide for Ford jobs in the UK, but I don't suppose that occurred to you or the EU for a second, eh Bruce...?

You still don't get the overall picture, do you?

It was a loan not a subsidy.

Ford Motor Company didn’t apply for a loan to expand that plant, as they had no desire to. They made a buisness decision to wind back production and ultimately close that plant. What part of that are you struggling with?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And after your diatribe, the EU could have used that loan to provide for Ford jobs in the UK, but I don't suppose that occurred to you or the EU for a second, eh Bruce...?

You still don't get the overall picture, do you?

As I said, all of the jobs at Southampton were either reassigned to other parts of Ford in the UK or given early retirement. You've assumed that 500 people were put on the dole by the nasty Europeans.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

One may also cite the UK being told by the EU that it had to seek permission from the EU before it could financially intervene in the Port Talbot steelworks matter. Think about that for a minute. We had to request permission from the other 27 member states before we could assist something on our own soil.

You've also neglected to mention that EU funds have done more to try and 're-align' the Port Talbot economy than UK central or regional government. Given that steel prices are at incredibly low levels, it doesn't suggest it's an industry with a long-term future, so you either bite the bullet and try to re-train people and change the nature of the local economy, or you kick the can down the road until you need to do so at a later date. Given that BMW have already said they'll be getting their steel from Germany, and Nissan are likely to move elsewhere too, it's madness to ignore the writing on the wall and it's a shame our own government don't have the foresight to help out, in much the same way as they fail to match the funding the EU provide to help communities with changes to their population due to migration. Taking back power to a bunch of tosspots. Lets get out the bunting.

 

[Number_25]

I'm pro-EU, but we need to get rid of them all.

 

[Methuselah]

You've also neglected to mention that EU funds have done more to try and 're-align' the Port Talbot economy than UK central or regional government. Given that steel prices are at incredibly low levels, it doesn't suggest it's an industry with a long-term future, so you either bite the bullet and try to re-train people and change the nature of the local economy, or you kick the can down the road until you need to do so at a later date. Given that BMW have already said they'll be getting their steel from Germany, and Nissan are likely to move elsewhere too, it's madness to ignore the writing on the wall and it's a shame our own government don't have the foresight to help out, in much the same way as they fail to match the funding the EU provide to help communities with changes to their population due to migration. Taking back power to a bunch of tosspots. Lets get out the bunting.

Er, the 'EU funds' is just our money they are giving back to us. We are net contributors. The EU don't have their own funds, its just taxes contributed by EU member states.

 

[peteblue]

Er, the 'EU funds' is just our money they are giving back to us. We are net contributors. The EU don't have their own funds, its just taxes contributed by EU member states.

They will never understand. We have told them this time and time again, they just don’t get it. It’s like that stupid Laurel v Janny YouTube.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Er, the 'EU funds' is just our money they are giving back to us. We are net contributors. The EU don't have their own funds, its just taxes contributed by EU member states.

The point is that, as with the EU migration fund to help communities with changes in their population numbers, the EU funds are much higher than UK government funds. The things people seem to complain about appear to be much more of a concern for the EU (who they blame) than for the government (who they want to 'give back' power to).