Current Affairs The General Election

[OnlyBlueWillDo]

Always the victim, never his fault.

Corbyn does not decide Labour policy, it is done collectively at the Party conference.

So how can you blame him for policies?

 

[Paris]

I fully understand and appreciate what you’re saying, and agree that just insulting the electorate in general is not exactly the way to change things. But...

It’s difficult to come to any other conclusion when you see some people’s reasons for voting for certain parties. I spoke to a lad who works for me on Thursday night, he’s an apprentice earning £16500 a year. The prospects of him ever earning more than £30k a year are remote. When I asked him why he voted Tory he went into an impassioned speech about tax increases, and how labour would tax everyone more. When I told him this wasn’t the case, and would only be for high earners, he doubled down, saying those people had obviously worked even harder for their money and so DEFINITELY shouldn’t be taxed more. He’s literally voted to protect the interests of people who are earning 5 times more than him, rather than to help himself or those less fortunate. It’s hard not to say ‘are you stupid?’ when coming up against that sort of argument.

That will obviously get a lot of likes in this echo chamber of a forum but we lost the election, not because the electorate are stupid, but because we failed to provide a respectable alternative. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. We are the 'thick and stupid' ones if we don't recognise that.

I said it before the election, I took a week off because I was fed up of saying it. The sun does not shine out of Corbyn's backside. Yet it is true that many people, including on here, seriously lack any awareness of that fact. They just go on the opinion of utter dullards like Owen Jones and belief that reflects the opinion of society as a whole.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Corbyn does not decide Labour policy, it is done collectively at the Party conference.

So how can you blame him for policies?

It was more a general point about the ridiculous takes of the last few days, trying to exculpate Corbyn of any blame for the absolute shellacking they got on Thursday. This despite evidence to show that dislike of Corbyn was as much if not more to blame for Labour voters going to the Tories (or not showing up) as Brexit was.

But if you really want to tug on the policy thread, the NPF is largely guided/steered by the JOC which itself has a fairly high level of input from party leadership.

He’s always been a liability on a national level. I’m sure he’s a lovely old chap (well not SURE, but he may well be) and he might have the very best of intentions. But what the **** does that matter if you’re a god-awful politician?

 

[peteblue]

Of course it shouldn’t be a surprise.

But that’s my point in admiring Soubry. She would have know that her position would lead to her being voted out.

Unlike a lot of MPs who are mostly concerned with their own jobs, she has sacrificed her position and all that comes with it to stick to her principles and what she’s thinks is right.

Parliament could do with more principled people.

She was arrogant And always has been. She honestly believed that she would be re-elected and it’s good that overbearing know it alls like her will no longer occupy Westminster.....

 

[Deulofeumygod]

Exactly how i felt too. Felt like Roddy Piper from the movie " They Live ".

EXACTLY THIS.

 

[evilwebby]

Lads, serious question here..

How many more times do we have to call voters who didn't vote the way we wanted 'thick and stupid' until they do vote the way that we want them to?

of the printable insults, try:

racist
bigoted
selfish
heartless
corrupt

We are none of those things. We just have different priority of values. We prioritze individualism, freedom, enterprise and opportunity. Other value safety, security and collectivism. The only think and stupid people are those who can't see the other side of the argument.

 

[Cardano]

She was arrogant And always has been. She honestly believed that she would be re-elected and it’s good that overbearing know it alls like her will no longer occupy Westminster.....

Not having that.

View her as arrogant and all the rest, fine.

But there is no way she thought she’d be re-elected. There was zero chance of that. She’s not a dimwit

 

[PSB1]

It was more a general point about the ridiculous takes of the last few days, trying to exculpate Corbyn of any blame for the absolute shellacking they got on Thursday. This despite evidence to show that dislike of Corbyn was as much if not more to blame for Labour voters going to the Tories (or not showing up) as Brexit was.

But if you really want to tug on the policy thread, the NPF is largely guided/steered by the JOC which itself has a fairly high level of input from party leadership.

He’s always been a liability on a national level. I’m sure he’s a lovely old chap (well not SURE, but he may well be) and he might have the very best of intentions. But what the **** does that matter if you’re a god-awful politician?

See also George Lansbury … the perfect precursor, in terms of intellect and views, of Corbyn. The man to whom Ernie Bevin said "Go and hawk your f*****g conscience around the chancelleries of Europe".

 

[peteblue]

Not having that.

View her as arrogant and all the rest, fine.

But there is no way she thought she’d be re-elected. There was zero chance of that. She’s not a dimwit

then why did she stand ?....

 

[Paris]

I fully understand and appreciate what you’re saying, and agree that just insulting the electorate in general is not exactly the way to change things. But...

It’s difficult to come to any other conclusion when you see some people’s reasons for voting for certain parties. I spoke to a lad who works for me on Thursday night, he’s an apprentice earning £16500 a year. The prospects of him ever earning more than £30k a year are remote. When I asked him why he voted Tory he went into an impassioned speech about tax increases, and how labour would tax everyone more. When I told him this wasn’t the case, and would only be for high earners, he doubled down, saying those people had obviously worked even harder for their money and so DEFINITELY shouldn’t be taxed more. He’s literally voted to protect the interests of people who are earning 5 times more than him, rather than to help himself or those less fortunate. It’s hard not to say ‘are you stupid?’ when coming up against that sort of argument.

Also what you appear to be propagating there is the politics of envy. That NEVER plays well to the majority. It appears that your apprentice lad there has aspirations to succeed in life - it may work out or it may not, but good luck to the lad.

 

[Cardano]

then why did she stand ?....

Dunno? To go down fighting maybe? But it was obvious to a four year old that she was finished.

Anyway, I can see my admiration of Soubry is a minority position around here so I’ll let it rest now.

Defending a Tory is not a hill I’m willing to die on!

 

[evilwebby]

I fully understand and appreciate what you’re saying, and agree that just insulting the electorate in general is not exactly the way to change things. But...

It’s difficult to come to any other conclusion when you see some people’s reasons for voting for certain parties. I spoke to a lad who works for me on Thursday night, he’s an apprentice earning £16500 a year. The prospects of him ever earning more than £30k a year are remote. When I asked him why he voted Tory he went into an impassioned speech about tax increases, and how labour would tax everyone more. When I told him this wasn’t the case, and would only be for high earners, he doubled down, saying those people had obviously worked even harder for their money and so DEFINITELY shouldn’t be taxed more. He’s literally voted to protect the interests of people who are earning 5 times more than him, rather than to help himself or those less fortunate. It’s hard not to say ‘are you stupid?’ when coming up against that sort of argument.
[/QUOTE]

Why can't he earn 30k a year?

This may sound incendiary, but I believe that anyone who works hard and applies themselves over the course of a 20-30 year career can earn far more that that, in any profession.

The lad, far from being duped, has his head very firmly screwed on.

 

[peteblue]

Dunno? To go down fighting maybe? But it was obvious to a four year old that she was finished.

Anyway, I can see my admiration of Soubry is a minority position around here so I’ll let it rest now.

Defending a Tory is not a hill I’m willing to die on!

I do take your point though....

 

[xena]

I fully understand and appreciate what you’re saying, and agree that just insulting the electorate in general is not exactly the way to change things. But...

It’s difficult to come to any other conclusion when you see some people’s reasons for voting for certain parties. I spoke to a lad who works for me on Thursday night, he’s an apprentice earning £16500 a year. The prospects of him ever earning more than £30k a year are remote. When I asked him why he voted Tory he went into an impassioned speech about tax increases, and how labour would tax everyone more. When I told him this wasn’t the case, and would only be for high earners, he doubled down, saying those people had obviously worked even harder for their money and so DEFINITELY shouldn’t be taxed more. He’s literally voted to protect the interests of people who are earning 5 times more than him, rather than to help himself or those less fortunate. It’s hard not to say ‘are you stupid?’ when coming up against that sort of argument.

So what did you do ?


Sack him.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

I get why people could be annoyed and offended if an MP continued to advocate one way when their constituency had voted another.

However, I definitely have more admiration for those who stuck to what they believe in.

I just can’t get my head around someone like Caroline Flint for example. Campaigned for remain and repeatedly stated her belief that leaving the EU would be disastrous for the country and the economic interests of her constituency.

But then following the referendum, done a complete U-turn and voted and supported Brexit every step of the way?

Was Shen honourably representing her constituents? Or trying to keep hold of her job?

I can’t help but think it was the latter.

I always got the impression from listening to her that she had come to the realisation that Brexit was happening no matter what, so she then backed May's deal because it was better than leaving with no deal.