Current Affairs The Far Right

[SerenityNigh]

Yes, but that's precisely what I was saying:
"Centrist has a real meaning, it means "close to the political center.""

The political center is now on the right wing. And in regards to race relations vis a vis the centers of power, the extreme right wing. People that ARE nazi apologists are calling themselves 'centrist' because they are busy painting Black Lives Matter, and AntiFa (which only exists as a reactionary force) as moral equivalents to Nazi's (I keep looking for a synonym here, but they're all just euphemisms, these people are Nazi's).

Moderates, legit moderates, actually have very LITTLE in common with centrists right now. Why? Because the fight is largely between common average leftists (with a small smattering of the more extreme leftists, but to be fair, extreme leftists are pretty marginalized) and Nazi's. Any sane moderate sees that siding with Nazi's is...well, it doesn't matter in a political context - they're Nazi's, and frankly that should be enough justification to oppose them for anyone with any shred of decency or knowledge of history.

Condemning a ideologically violent racist force as the equivalent of a largely ideologically nonviolent political force is just apologism, no matter what words you couch it in. Currently it's being couched as 'centrism', and thus 'centrists' are being pulled in. You want to not be a Nazi apologist? It's easy! You can disagree with BLM (though I have yet to see an intelligently argued reason against that group) while still seeing that there is a fundamental difference between them and Adolf Hitler worshiping white supremacists.

I.E. If you try and find a center between 'Kill all non-whites and Jews' and 'We deserve civil rights', well, you're pro-Nazi.

No, you're caught up in the rhetoric of a specific political issue. Not to mention the Centrism is defined by views on issues across the political spectrum.

But Nazis aren't centrists by naming themselves centrists any more than they are cats by naming themselves cats. And cats can still rise up and oppose Nazis despite what the Nazis say. If the Nazis start calling themselves progressives, will you stop calling yourself progressive? It's all stupid really.

*Now if the Nazis change their name to the National Centrist Party of America, that changes the dynamics somewhat. I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with being called a Nationalist nor a Socialist, that specific combination has certain entailments.

**Plus, "trying to find the center of an issue" is what moderates do, not what centrists do.

 

[rascal]

It all comes down to penis size envy. I'm well endowed so I don't hate anyone, but the far right and Donald Trump supporters either have a very small penis or no penis at all and in a pique of jealousy are lashing out at people they know are better endowed than they are, hence lashing out at blacks, the left etc etc.

 

[SerenityNigh]

For reference: a centrist is defined by his/her collection of political views; a moderate is defined by his/her leaning to bipartisanship, a willingness to agree to alternate viewpoints.

Nobody should be moderate towards Nazis, which is what you've claimed centrists are doing

 

[RaleighBlue]

No, you're caught up in the rhetoric of a specific political issue. Not to mention the Centrism is defined by views on issues across the political spectrum.

But Nazis aren't centrists by naming themselves centrists any more than they are cats by naming themselves cats. And cats can still rise up and oppose Nazis despite what the Nazis say. If the Nazis start calling themselves progressives, will you stop calling yourself progressive? It's all stupid really.

*Now if the Nazis change their name to the National Centrist Party of America, that changes the dynamics somewhat. I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with being called a Nationalist nor a Socialist, that specific combination has certain entailments.

**Plus, "trying to find the center of an issue" is what moderates do, not what centrists do.

You have that backwards.

A moderate is about moderating change - i.e. go slow, little steps, nothing too drastic. They believe in keeping a steady ship and compromising on a better 'middle path'. Centrism is being in the center for its own sake - it has no underlying ethos. I have repeatedly said, "On this issue, one cannot be a 'centrist'".

And Nazi's aren't naming themselves centrists. They're out and out calling themselves Nazi's. There is a large group of people in the 'center' being 'centrists' saying, "I'm not a Nazi, but BLM and AntiFa are just as bad." The thing is - that's the center of this equation. Nazi apologism is the center.

I see where you're coming from:
Right - Centrist - Left.

But it's relative because right now we have:
Nazi - Centrist - Not Nazi.

This is exclusive to the particular state of American politics and about the issues revolving around race relations.

We can disagree on semantics, but the core is that there is no center of this equation. There is no 'other side of the story'. We can intellectually parse political semantics, but we cannot forget that people have died over this. And more will die over this. And the action of violence is originating out of the extreme right wing cesspool of Nazism. Any decent human being should realize that this is not the arena to play semantics or 'look at the bigger picture'.

Nazi's. On the streets of America. A president that supports them. This actually is happening, right now.

Ever wondered what you'd do in early 30's Germany? Now we can find out.

 

[SerenityNigh]

It all comes down to penis size envy. I'm well endowed so I don't hate anyone, but the far right and Donald Trump supporters either have a very small penis or no penis at all and in a pique of jealousy are lashing out at people they know are better endowed than they are, hence lashing out at blacks, the left etc etc.

There are quite a few people, regardless of political orientation, who've had no penis at all but I've envied spending very much personal time with them. And I've been quite jealous of those that were able to spend much personal time with them.

But now I've moderated these views, and am very happy and centered in my marriage.

 

[SerenityNigh]

You have that backwards.

A moderate is about moderating change - i.e. go slow, little steps, nothing too drastic. They believe in keeping a steady ship and compromising on a better 'middle path'. Centrism is being in the center for its own sake - it has no underlying ethos. I have repeatedly said, "On this issue, one cannot be a 'centrist'".

And Nazi's aren't naming themselves centrists. They're out and out calling themselves Nazi's. There is a large group of people in the 'center' being 'centrists' saying, "I'm not a Nazi, but BLM and AntiFa are just as bad." The thing is - that's the center of this equation. Nazi apologism is the center.

I see where you're coming from:
Right - Centrist - Left.

But it's relative because right now we have:
Nazi - Centrist - Not Nazi.

This is exclusive to the particular state of American politics and about the issues revolving around race relations.

We can disagree on semantics, but the core is that there is no center of this equation. There is no 'other side of the story'. We can intellectually parse political semantics, but we cannot forget that people have died over this. And more will die over this. And the action of violence is originating out of the extreme right wing cesspool of Nazism. Any decent human being should realize that this is not the arena to play semantics or 'look at the bigger picture'.

Nazi's. On the streets of America. A president that supports them. This actually is happening, right now.

Ever wondered what you'd do in early 30's Germany? Now we can find out.

You can't be centrist on a single issue any more than you can be republican or democrat on a single issue (unless you only have one issue, but to my knowledge, that's only Evangelicals and abortion).

Centrism is relative to spectrum, not to issues. You can be perfectly immoderate about Nazis, but Roydo has already politely asked me not to speak freely about how I feel regarding Nazi's so I'll not say specifically.

I don't know any Centrists who support Trump, Alt-Right, Nazis, or any of the Alt-Right/Nazi spectrum, and I'm not aware that any of these are being confused with Nazis. As I'm aware, it's only hardline conservatives (like Tex and Mezz) who will deflect from the issue and claim to be without a position.

 

[SerenityNigh]

You have that backwards.

A moderate is about moderating change - i.e. go slow, little steps, nothing too drastic. They believe in keeping a steady ship and compromising on a better 'middle path'. Centrism is being in the center for its own sake - it has no underlying ethos. I have repeatedly said, "On this issue, one cannot be a 'centrist'".

And Nazi's aren't naming themselves centrists. They're out and out calling themselves Nazi's. There is a large group of people in the 'center' being 'centrists' saying, "I'm not a Nazi, but BLM and AntiFa are just as bad." The thing is - that's the center of this equation. Nazi apologism is the center.

I see where you're coming from:
Right - Centrist - Left.

But it's relative because right now we have:
Nazi - Centrist - Not Nazi.

This is exclusive to the particular state of American politics and about the issues revolving around race relations.

We can disagree on semantics, but the core is that there is no center of this equation. There is no 'other side of the story'. We can intellectually parse political semantics, but we cannot forget that people have died over this. And more will die over this. And the action of violence is originating out of the extreme right wing cesspool of Nazism. Any decent human being should realize that this is not the arena to play semantics or 'look at the bigger picture'.

Nazi's. On the streets of America. A president that supports them. This actually is happening, right now.

Ever wondered what you'd do in early 30's Germany? Now we can find out.

Not perfect at all, an the spectrum is more more complex than this simple 2D chart, but maybe this helps. Still... no "centrist" is quite in the middle of this chart, but maybe this elucidates some differences between a "centrist" and "far right"/"alt-right"

 

[RaleighBlue]

You can't be centrist on a single issue any more than you can be republican or democrat on a single issue (unless you only have one issue, but to my knowledge, that's only Evangelicals and abortion).

Centrism is relative to spectrum, not to issues. You can be perfectly immoderate about Nazis, but Roydo has already politely asked me not to speak freely about how I feel regarding Nazi's so I'll not say specifically.

I don't know any Centrists who support Trump, Alt-Right, Nazis, or any of the Alt-Right/Nazi spectrum, and I'm not aware that any of these are being confused with Nazis. As I'm aware, it's only hardline conservatives (like Tex and Mezz) who will deflect from the issue and claim to be without a position.

Centrism vs centrism

I dig what you're saying, but that's why I argued it's a changing word. Largely because we're fracturing into single-issue people on the whole rather than people with a suite of political views. I think this is where our definition is differing. On the Left (among which I annoyingly count myself) single issue voting is our kryptonite. It's why the Left cannot organize as well as the Right - the coalition is a whole bunch of single issue voters that require ideological purity (last seen vis a vis Hillary and her corporate ties/war voting record).

But also because people use euphemisms to hide behind. Right now 'soft' racists are using the umbrella term 'Centrist' to cover for Nazi apologism. That's not to say, 'real' Centrists are Nazi apologists (though I would argue 'real Centrists are rarer than Unicorns, most people use it to cover for not talking about their beliefs with opposition or for not holding any deeply held views).

But when you see the political cartoons, and rhetoric attacking centrists, they're attacking dogwhistle racists.

Per your graph - it's a lot, lot more complicated that can shown on any visualization, and 'centrism' makes very little sense outside of a simplification of reality. Mainly because it espouses no ideology at all, it is purely reactive. It only makes sense relative to the positions of others.

 

[Ruairi77]

aw, yer man from the vice video is crying

 

[SerenityNigh]

Centrism vs centrism

I dig what you're saying, but that's why I argued it's a changing word. Largely because we're fracturing into single-issue people on the whole rather than people with a suite of political views. I think this is where our definition is differing. On the Left (among which I annoyingly count myself) single issue voting is our kryptonite. It's why the Left cannot organize as well as the Right - the coalition is a whole bunch of single issue voters that require ideological purity (last seen vis a vis Hillary and her corporate ties/war voting record).

But also because people use euphemisms to hide behind. Right now 'soft' racists are using the umbrella term 'Centrist' to cover for Nazi apologism. That's not to say, 'real' Centrists are Nazi apologists (though I would argue 'real Centrists are rarer than Unicorns, most people use it to cover for not talking about their beliefs with opposition or for not holding any deeply held views).

But when you see the political cartoons, and rhetoric attacking centrists, they're attacking dogwhistle racists.

Per your graph - it's a lot, lot more complicated that can shown on any visualization, and 'centrism' makes very little sense outside of a simplification of reality. Mainly because it espouses no ideology at all, it is purely reactive. It only makes sense relative to the positions of others.

Agreed, for our purposes I'll put away the Centrist defense. But if anyone claims Blue Dogs are Nazi sympathizers... GTF!

 

[peteblue]

No, you're caught up in the rhetoric of a specific political issue. Not to mention the Centrism is defined by views on issues across the political spectrum.

But Nazis aren't centrists by naming themselves centrists any more than they are cats by naming themselves cats. And cats can still rise up and oppose Nazis despite what the Nazis say. If the Nazis start calling themselves progressives, will you stop calling yourself progressive? It's all stupid really.

*Now if the Nazis change their name to the National Centrist Party of America, that changes the dynamics somewhat. I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with being called a Nationalist nor a Socialist, that specific combination has certain entailments.

**Plus, "trying to find the center of an issue" is what moderates do, not what centrists do.

Brilliant post.......

 

[SpeedEFC]

aw, yer man from the vice video is crying

What a strange man he is. He claims to be a Nazi and fronts as if he's ready to start a race war but he breaks down over something not much more than a skirmish relative to what would be his greater vision for the West. At the end of the day he's just a coward who has to hide behind weapons and crowds to feel strong but when that's taken away from him he collapses and I'll bet a lot of those wannabe Klansmen at the weekend are the same.

It doesn't really make much sense the more I think of how the Alt-right follow leaders that are so weak. They are self identified Fascists after all and one of the main things in a Fascist state is strong leaders and yet the Alt-right has none or so it seems. Guess we should count ourselves lucky that even with them calling on support from across the US they were still barely comparable to a relatively local and spontaneous counter protest. Then again, with how badly Fascist states turn out for everyone it's no surprise they attract people who are mentally unstable at best who need psychiatric treatment more than anything else.

 

[SteveSC]

aw, yer man from the vice video is crying

This guy is unbelievable.

He realises he was on vice saying he was armed and ready. He even showed the girl from vice and well the rest of us his arsenal.

Now he claims he went there to be peaceful haha!!

 

[SerenityNigh]

Brilliant post.......

You've been drinking again?

 

[LinekersLegs]

Tbh am pleasantly surprised that Fox is actually having these conversations.