Current Affairs The "another stabbing in London" thread

[NilSatisOptimum]

But that doesnt compute to WHY a young lad would stab another one does it? I very much doubt that a young lad in London gets so worked up about Government policy that he reckons the answer is to stab someone.

There is obviously an endemic "craze" why so many seemingly carry knifes. I have no idea why. But then I had no idea why there was a spike in acid and moped attacks last year. Or why there was a spike in drive by shootings a bit further back.

Some plug into "Its the Tories/Governments fault" mode. It might be. But why not actually ask them?

It will be nuanced most things are, however, for that poor excuse of leader and Prime Minister to deny that the drop in police numbers has anything to do with the raise in knife crime and other serious crimes is ridiculous even for the Conservatives. The Tory government have created void and the gangs are only to keen to take control of streets, like they have always done. In years to come they will be glamoured and get called gangsters be named Peaky blades or have a former pop star brothers portray some.

 

[Zezti]

But that doesnt compute to WHY a young lad would stab another one does it? I very much doubt that a young lad in London gets so worked up about Government policy that he reckons the answer is to stab someone.

There is obviously an endemic "craze" why so many seemingly carry knifes. I have no idea why. But then I had no idea why there was a spike in acid and moped attacks last year. Or why there was a spike in drive by shootings a bit further back.

Some plug into "Its the Tories/Governments fault" mode. It might be. But why not actually ask them?

Really, take a look at the Akala interview on Channel 4 posted on the last page.
Its not the government's fault that a man stabs and kills someone. But what happens in a young man's life to lead to that point? What choices and factors lead to him arming himself with a knife and having such little regard for life? Poverty, lack of education, and unstable family life. Can the finger be pointed at the governments (not just Tory bashing here) for those? Absolutely.

 

[Goat]

Speak for yourself please Pete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London if you compare the data on a per capita basis with other cities in Britain, London is no more dangerous than Liverpool. Of course, you'd stop short of trolling Liverpool with your faux outrage as you pick your targets.

Which respect Bruce these figures are 10 years old.

In that time im sure you will agree that knife crime has increased in all areas, but it seems mainly London.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Which respect Bruce these figures are 10 years old.

In that time im sure you will agree that knife crime has increased in all areas, but it seems mainly London.

For sure, I wouldn't wish to argue that what's happening isn't equal parts shocking and sad, it just bugs me the verve with which Pete jumps on all things London, and especially his comment that the city, and us residents, are in some way sick.

 

[roydo]

Really, take a look at the Akala interview on Channel 4 posted on the last page.
Its not the government's fault that a man stabs and kills someone. But what happens in a young man's life to lead to that point? What choices and factors lead to him arming himself with a knife and having such little regard for life? Poverty, lack of education, and unstable family life. Can the finger be pointed at the governments (not just Tory bashing here) for those? Absolutely.

A finger can be pointed at a Government, of course. But I am sorry, if you want to absolve folk of responsibility and call it a result of Government policies, which some have done, you will never get to the root(s) of the actual issues.

Like in your post, "unstable family life". I would hazard a guess thats as much a cause as anything. Is there actually anything in Government policies that has contributed to unstable family life?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

he addresses the issue in this interview as well which is absolutely fantastic, can listen to him for hours

Superb interview with a very articulate bloke, and it was nice to see O'Brien giving him the platform to show his very evident knowledge rather than trying to be the star himself as many interviewers (and often he himself) do.

 

[devogue]

More police
More prisons
Tougher sentences. All sounds easy but for some reason it isn’t. I understand funding may be an issue but if billions can be found to pay to prop up the government for votes and “town funds” then surely we can invest in more police and prisons.

I have never seen a government and politicians on all sides being so out of touch.
This has been building for years. Community sentences which criminals laugh at and think it’s christmas when sentenced at court and a hamstrung politically correct police service.

Prisons won't solve this problem, just look at America. The way forward is through improving education, funding youth services and instead of arresting low level drug dealers (usually from poor backgrounds) target the large scale importation of drugs (root of the problem).

 

[tsubaki]

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So if I’m reading this correctly, since 2015 we’ve lost about 3,000 Police, yet knife offences rose by 15,000.

But between 2011 and 2014 we lost about 9,000 police yet knife crime actually reduced by nearly 7,000.

Not quite so black and white is it......

When you look at what the breakdown of those statistics are (which can be found here) , the difference is largely down to there being fewer non-fatal assaults with knives and fewer knife-enabled robberies during those years. They are both probably indicative of other variables affecting the crime rate, such as the current mobile phones not being seen as being as attractive to steal as they had been in the past, or lower levels of tensions in one or more of the big cities than current.

 

[tsubaki]

A finger can be pointed at a Government, of course. But I am sorry, if you want to absolve folk of responsibility and call it a result of Government policies, which some have done, you will never get to the root(s) of the actual issues.

Like in your post, "unstable family life". I would hazard a guess thats as much a cause as anything. Is there actually anything in Government policies that has contributed to unstable family life?

Lots of things. The pressure on social housing (especially in London), the cuts to youth services, police, mental health support, councils generally and the removal of stable, well-paid employment as an achievable goal to most of the population has collectively put a lot of people under an awful lot of stress. Reforms to education also require them to get into debt (as a degree is required for most of the remaining decent jobs). If you are a 25 year old with a wife and two kids in London, chances are you will never buy your own house, you will probably never get a council house and the private rental you can (just) afford will probably be in a dump.

For example, to live in the worst area of Croydon (New Addington), you are looking at an average £352 a week to get a three bedroom house; thats £18 grand a year - when you add to that your transport costs, raising your kids, heating, council tax and the rest it doesn't leave much out of the £34k median average London wage (and remember half the city is on a lot less than that). The fear this creates is exactly the same sort of fear that was created in a huge number of working class households for most of the past two hundred years, and it produced the same sort of endemic levels of domestic violence, assaults, thievery and whatnot as we are seeing now.

Of course the total fetishization of the rich (in wider society) and the gangster (in local society) - even though in both cases often the people being lauded are nowhere near as rich as they claim to be - is a massive factor as well, and given the way other people actively profit out of this strife (fashion labels, the music industry, journalism and the wider media to an extent) it should be no surprise that an age-group that historically has always been the most susceptible age-group for behaving in idiotic, life-threatening ways end up doing idiotic things that threaten their lives.

 

[peteblue]

Nope. Unless a politician wants to follow an agenda though. Who'd have thunk it?

It would make more sense to ask the kids why they are carrying knives I would suggest. But no, lets draw a lazy conclusion and get no further to addressing the actual issue.

I think that is the real issue. Why are they doing it. If kids are being frightened, by journalism or real threats, then they need a way out. We can either support them or threaten them. But either way whatever the government chooses it needs to be robust and not some wishy washy response.....

 

[peteblue]

No it's not...

View attachment 55278

In the Met, they've lost nearly 4% of their total available full-time, paid officers in the last financial year. Would you like to see the statistics for specials?

Or how about...

View attachment 55279

Yes, we all agree that police numbers have reduced, but my point was that knife crime didn’t follow the pattern from 2011 to 2014......

 

[peteblue]

No I don't, I'm suggestive punitive action after the event is largely for show and will solve nothing in the long, the issues are deeper.

I am suggesting having this government has increased the issues, absolutely I am, they are a complete disgrace

Punitive sentencing is not for show. It keeps some scumbag off the streets and lets everyone else know that punitive measures will follow carrying a knife. This is exactly how they stopped the scourge of razor attacks in Glasgow. Let them know that a severe sentence will follow. We are now so controlled by Liberals that we don’t know how to punish anymore. Kids feel as though they cannot be touched no matter what they do....

 

[COYBL25]

Lots of things. The pressure on social housing (especially in London), the cuts to youth services, police, mental health support, councils generally and the removal of stable, well-paid employment as an achievable goal to most of the population has collectively put a lot of people under an awful lot of stress. Reforms to education also require them to get into debt (as a degree is required for most of the remaining decent jobs). If you are a 25 year old with a wife and two kids in London, chances are you will never buy your own house, you will probably never get a council house and the private rental you can (just) afford will probably be in a dump.

For example, to live in the worst area of Croydon (New Addington), you are looking at an average £352 a week to get a three bedroom house; thats £18 grand a year - when you add to that your transport costs, raising your kids, heating, council tax and the rest it doesn't leave much out of the £34k median average London wage (and remember half the city is on a lot less than that). The fear this creates is exactly the same sort of fear that was created in a huge number of working class households for most of the past two hundred years, and it produced the same sort of endemic levels of domestic violence, assaults, thievery and whatnot as we are seeing now.

Of course the total fetishization of the rich (in wider society) and the gangster (in local society) - even though in both cases often the people being lauded are nowhere near as rich as they claim to be - is a massive factor as well, and given the way other people actively profit out of this strife (fashion labels, the music industry, journalism and the wider media to an extent) it should be no surprise that an age-group that historically has always been the most susceptible age-group for behaving in idiotic, life-threatening ways end up doing idiotic things that threaten their lives.

Fantastic post.

When you put that together with the fact that there is almost zero chance of getting caught carrying a knife, due to the fact they are easy to conceal and dispose off, plus hardly any visible police as a deterrent. Throw in all the gang related social media stuff, you`ve got the perfect cocktail of lawlessness that we are now seeing even in well to do areas like Hale Barnes, where the lad got killed at the weekend.

 

[peteblue]

For sure, I wouldn't wish to argue that what's happening isn't equal parts shocking and sad, it just bugs me the verve with which Pete jumps on all things London, and especially his comment that the city, and us residents, are in some way sick.

Unfortunately Bruce, what happens in London then seems to be followed and copied across the U.K. What is happening in London is sick, and even worse I don’t think you believe or accept that you even have a problem. You make excuses for it. Of course it’s not all Londoners, just as it’s not all scousers for the various scumbags located there. But until the ‘normal’ people start to be properly outraged and demand change then nothing will happen. Allowing routine stabbings to become the norm or even acceptable is sick.....

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Unfortunately Bruce, what happens in London then seems to be followed and copied across the U.K. What is happening in London is sick, and even worse I don’t think you believe or accept that you even have a problem. You make excuses for it. Of course it’s not all Londoners, just as it’s not all scousers for the various scumbags located there. But until the ‘normal’ people start to be properly outraged and demand change then nothing will happen. Allowing routine stabbings to become the norm or even acceptable is sick.....

That's the same with many things not just negatives. House prices normally see boom then it reverberates outwards, stone in the pond effect. London can also stand accused of bankrolling the country. However, the logic of trying to compartmentalize Londons positives and negatives makes no sense to me. London can be accused of being polorised by the effect of Austerity and growing inequality.