The 2 years since Martinez left.

[sharkey1001]

Howard's performances for USA in the world cup seemed to grant him another 2 years. He was awful the season before that. I remember going through the end of season review and pointing out that he was directly at fault for 14 goals or 10 points - points that a average premier league keeper would have saved. Between that and John Stones and Alcaraz we were a mess at the back. Was frightening... much like this season.

Loved the way we went to Emirates and Stamford Bridge and had majority of the possession - just lacked that extra quality upfront and in defence to get a result.

I wanted him gone, but would swap those days for this drivel under this fat parasite. I don't believe I hated Mike Walker as much, although I was only a kid then. For "saving" us from relegation, he could be the most hated EFC manager ever.

 

[davek]

Andy Johnson was a big lad up front?

17 goals in two seasons. Great record signing.

 

[davek]

And got us down to 11th place in two successive seasons?
Even two deadbeats like Koeman and Allardyce hva managed better than that.

Did it slip your attention that the teams they managed had £300M pumped into them? Or that both of those two mutts could barely win a cup game between them in two seasons?

 

[Barnfred 55]

Where is the evidence of this? He has had one good league season in his entire EPL career, and it was when he took over Moyes’ team. When he put more of his own stamp on the team it regressed massively. He deserves a share of the blame for the state of the team.

What are you even on about? You said he played a system that doesn't work, but it clearly does for a lot of teams who have the right quality players. We didn't, but he still continued to play that way knowing is wasn't working. So he eventually went. End Of.

Not sure what made you think I was defending him?

 

[davek]

My comment was made about his inability to turn around rough patches of form, not his approach concerning how we went into games. In both his final two seasons when the team started to become unstuck it snowballed into a season killer. A manager who can't rectify a team's performance during a season is not a very good manager.

That's wrong. The second season we hit a terrible patch in the middle third that put us right under the cosh, but the final third of the season was turned right around - we won 6 of the last 10 games and drew one. So where does that leave your theory?

 

[Thomasc]

wow, another thread set up for DaveK to start getting aroused again about Martinez.

great site lads.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Idle speculation, but are we too quick to fire managers?

On the face of it under the current regime we'd have fired Moyes after 03/04. Yes, a different financial context, but he did (which regardless of any other pro or con we've endlessly debated) took us back to the edges of challenging, but (for reasons oft debated) couldn't quite move us on.

I suspect if Kenwright had remained majority shareholder Martinez would have got another season. Given the circus of the last two years, would it have been so bad?

 

[Thomasc]

We won 4 games at home all season didn't we in his last season.

If we are going to start playing softarses, might as well keep Allardyce as at least we don't get humiliated by the neighbours.

 

[davek]

It's a real shame Martinez didn't succeed here because I do believe his plans and ambitions for the club were very much along the right lines. But in hindsight I do believe there were 3 problems with him. One was in his football philosophy and the others were in his individual characteristics, and it was the combination of the 3 that were to prove his downfall.

Firstly, his football philosophy demanded a certain quality of player to make it work. On the whole, we didn't have enough of them in the right positions. Basically our players just weren't good enough to play the way he demanded, resulting in us losing possession far too frequently leaving us defensively exposed.

The two personal traits that let him down were stubbornness and loyalty. He demanded blind loyalty from his players and in return he reciprocated that loyalty. Anybody disagreed with him were invariably out, whether that be playing or backroom staff. I don't think I need to go into the stubbornness, but it was these traits that eventually led to him losing the dressing room, and it can only go one way from there.

Whilst I was glad to see him go I have to admit that he left the club in a better position (football wise) than we are now. I certainly enjoyed the football being served up a lot more than the current dross, and I whoever/wherever we were playing I always felt reasonably confident of getting some sort of positive result.

I completely agree with that analysis. Spot on.

There's no way I'm saying he and Everton were a perfect fit or that he could have stayed on. But I cant accept anyone saying the feller was a poor manager when they have the evidence right in front of them that he wasn't and isn't. He was quite clearly the most innovative and dynamic coach we've had in a generation.

 

[davek]

Strange player to include in that. How many of our midfielders have had a better scoring record than Fellaini did in 2012-13 in the last 10 years? None.

Fellaini - 12 goals in 36 appearances. 11 league goals

Cahill - 10 in 43 (09-10). 8 league goals.
Mirallas - 11 in 36 (14-15). 7 league goals.
Barkley - 12 in 48 (15-16). 8 league goals (including penalties)

He had the best goals to games, most goals in the league and didn't rely on penalties.

...erm, because he was played by Moyes AS A FORWARD.

 

[davek]

Literally every post you make is full of lies...

You're an absolute charlatan who posted a diatribe of hate against @davek and yet cant respond to others pointing out your clear lies in other threads.

Certainly an agenda here...though it's actually becoming disturbing and possibly worrying to read.

Fake news purveyor mate.

 

[Zatara]

The last Everton Manager to be given the so called "3 years to get it right" timescale.
Since then we have-
lost both visits to Burnley,
both visits to Southampton,
both visits to Bournemouth,
both visits to Watford,
won neither trips to relegation haunted Swansea,failed to win this season at woeful West Brom failed to win last season at relegated Middlesbrough or terrible West Ham and have not beaten a top 7 side home or away this season in 14 attempts.
Clearly keep sacking managers isn't the answer and maybe with hindsight Martinez should have been given Moshiris' millions to get it right.

You just need to look at the funds available;

Signings over 10mil made under Martinez -- Lukaku, McCarthy, Niasse (Mori was 9.5mil but a 50% profit could have been made on him too).
Lukaku was a major success
McCarthy would have been a success but for injuries and was heavily linked to Arsenal.

Signings over 10mil made under Koeman -- Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Williams, Klaassen, Keane, Pickford, Sigurdsson.
Pickford has been a major success.

Signings over 10mil made under Allardyce -- Tosun, Walcott.
Jury is out.


Quite clearly Martinez spent larger transfer fees far more wisely than Koeman.

I think if Martinez was given the 190mil Koeman spent on those 7 signings above he would have theoretically signed superior players to fit into his system and would therefore have had far greater success.

Add on the 50mil odd Allardyce has spent on two players who wouldn't be first choices in the top 6 and its hard to argue against that.

 

[Thomasc]

I completely agree with that analysis. Spot on.

There's no way I'm saying he and Everton were a perfect fit or that he could have stayed on. But I cant accept anyone saying the feller was a poor manager when they have the evidence right in front of them that he wasn't and isn't. He was quite clearly the most innovative and dynamic coach we've had in a generation.

He was a second rate, relegated manager who had seen his Wigan side get lucky in a cup.

He was then lucky enough to take over a consistently finishing top 6 side and turned them into a side only good enough to finish 11th 2 seasons on the bounce.

Ergo, he took us backwards. the players knew it, the majority of the fans knew it and his bosses knew it, hence him getting potted after yet another humiliating defeat at Leicester when the whole nation was laughing at how bad we had become.

You can't slate Koeman for the bad start he had this season and not apply the same rules for Martinez.

 

[Zatara]

We won 4 games at home all season didn't we in his last season.

If we are going to start playing softarses, might as well keep Allardyce as at least we don't get humiliated by the neighbours.

How many away?

 

[Thomasc]

How many away?

Can't have been that many, we finished 11th.