Succession Planning - Managerial Wishlist

[John from Bootle]

But again, none of those things are related to what I’m actually saying? No it’s not free, no it’s not guaranteed to work, no we don’t know how the players would react. As I’ve said in every post on the subject, I’m not saying a change is obviously the way to go and there’s no argument to the contrary, I’m just saying I don’t think it’s necessarily a completely bonkers shout if the season goes a certain way. I hope the owners aren’t as risk averse as some posters want them to be, that’s for sure.

So basically, you're sitting on the fence? Or alluding to that? Seems a strange stance to me mate.

 

[Lanolin]

So basically, you're sitting on the fence? Or alluding to that? Seems a strange stance to me mate.

You think not claiming to have all the answers is a strange stance? That’s very weird, and very telling.

 

[pfim]

I think Thomas Frank, Iraola, and Howe are proving that the grass isn't always greener and those are names I've seen thrown around a lot in the last year.

It think they're proving that in a head coaching role, the players are far more important than the coach. Same with Glasner.

 

[John from Bootle]

You think not claiming to have all the answers is a strange stance? That’s very weird, and very telling.

Not really. I just think you should have some conviction (not YOU per se). I think we're coming out of a period of deep instability that nearly cost us a lot a more than it did, and I've not seen a decent argument as to why we should we should be sacking this manager or looking to replace him.

I get the impression you think it's up for debate.

 

[pfim]

Not really. I just think you should have some conviction (not YOU per se). I think we're coming out of a period of deep instability that nearly cost us a lot a more than it did, and I've not seen a decent argument as to why we should we should be sacking this manager or looking to replace him.

I get the impression you think it's up for debate.

Put it differently, his contract is up after 26-27. Do they extend him or let him go into the season as a lame duck? This is probably closer to the true discussion than canning him after this season.

 

[John from Bootle]

Put it differently, his contract is up after 26-27. Do they extend him or let him go into the season as a lame duck? This is probably closer to the true discussion than canning him after this season.

Extend. Simple as!

If it goes tits up next season, then take the appropriate step and sack him, otherwise, let him continue to take us in to the top half.

 

[Lanolin]

Not really. I just think you should have some conviction (not YOU per se). I think we're coming out of a period of deep instability that nearly cost us a lot a more than it did, and I've not seen a decent argument as to why we should we should be sacking this manager or looking to replace him.

I get the impression you think it's up for debate.

Personally think that’s a very simplistic take. There are lots of things to consider that mean it’s not a straightforward question, and I can see the merits in different approaches depending on what the circumstances are.

Firstly it’s not clear how this season is going to pan out yet. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we finish 5th and qualify for the CL, in which case it would of course seem utterly crazy to change managers when the one we have has massively outperformed expectations. On the flip side it’s equally possible that we could finish 14th, lower than we have in the last 2 seasons, and lower than the vast majority of us would have expected. If you can’t see how those two scenarios might lead to different conclusions being drawn about his future I don’t really know what to say.

On top of that I don’t know what our finances are like, what the ambitions of the owner are, what moyes’s relationship with the players is like, how likely some theoretically attractive options to replace him would be to come here, whether Moyes wants to stay here past the end of his contract, whether there’s a break clause in his current contract etc etc etc, which would all have an impact on whether I thought twisting was the right option when push came to shove.

I said the other day, I’m not entirely convinced that going into the season with Moyes as a bit of a lame duck who’s being moved on at the end of the season is a great idea - it turned into a circus when it happened to him at West Ham and they started getting walloped every week so I’d like to avoid that if possible. I’m also not keen on us having committing to moyes for the long term by giving him another contract. I genuinely love the bloke but I’m bored of being the type of team we’ve been for most of the last 30 years and I don’t see Moyes moving us away from that. To avoid those two scenarios I’d lean towards changing in the summer if all of the myriad of variables I’ve already mentioned lent themselves to it, but as I’ve no idea whether they will, it’s not really possible to have a strong conviction either way.

 

[John from Bootle]

Personally think that’s a very simplistic take. There are lots of things to consider that mean it’s not a straightforward question, and I can see the merits in different approaches depending on what the circumstances are.

Firstly it’s not clear how this season is going to pan out yet. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we finish 5th and qualify for the CL, in which case it would of course seem utterly crazy to change managers when the one we have has massively outperformed expectations. On the flip side it’s equally possible that we could finish 14th, lower than we have in the last 2 seasons, and lower than the vast majority of us would have expected. If you can’t see how those two scenarios might lead to different conclusions being drawn about his future I don’t really know what to say.

On top of that I don’t know what our finances are like, what the ambitions of the owner are, what moyes’s relationship with the players is like, how likely some theoretically attractive options to replace him would be to come here, whether Moyes wants to stay here past the end of his contract, whether there’s a break clause in his current contract etc etc etc, which would all have an impact on whether I thought twisting was the right option when push came to shove.

I said the other day, I’m not entirely convinced that going into the season with Moyes as a bit of a lame duck who’s being moved on at the end of the season is a great idea - it turned into a circus when it happened to him at West Ham and they started getting walloped every week so I’d like to avoid that if possible. I’m also not keen on us having committing to moyes for the long term by giving him another contract. I genuinely love the bloke but I’m bored of being the type of team we’ve been for most of the last 30 years and I don’t see Moyes moving us away from that. To avoid those two scenarios I’d lean towards changing in the summer if all of the myriad of variables I’ve already mentioned lent themselves to it, but as I’ve no idea whether they will, it’s not really possible to have a strong conviction either way.

If we finished 14th, would you say he's done a worse job than Dyche? Considering every season is different, and 14th would likely mean more points earned this season than last? . |The difference between 14th and 7th could easily be about 3 points.

We all want to see us move beyond what we've been in the last 30 years mate, but was that ever likely to happen in 18 months with the backdrop of 10 + senior players departing and a net spend of about £20 million per incoming player? The malaise at Everton started in 1988. It was never gonna be fixed in 18 months.

 

[Number_25]

 

[Lanolin]

If we finished 14th, would you say he's done a worse job than Dyche? Considering every season is different, and 14th would likely mean more points earned this season than last? . |The difference between 14th and 7th could easily be about 3 points.

We all want to see us move beyond what we've been in the last 30 years mate, but was that ever likely to happen in 18 months with the backdrop of 10 + senior players departing and a net spend of about £20 million per incoming player. The malaise at Everton started in 1988. It was never gonna be fixed in 18 months.

Points are only relevant in the season you get them. If you get more points in a season that everyone gets more points, it’s because points were easier to come by, obviously. Whether he does a better job than dyche is also irrelevant to the question at hand, that’s not the benchmark for what I want Everton to achieve going forward.

You want Moyes to stay whatever happens and I can see the merits in changing things in the right circumstances. There’s no right or wrong answer, it’s just opinions and we’ve both given them, not a lot else to say about it I don’t think.

 

[bicycleheader]

So far it's an accurate one though isn't it.

Tis, but I wasn’t disputing it’s accuracy, I was saying it’s a weak argument for you in particular as a generally not nonsensical poster for why we shouldn’t go for any particular manager if changing up

If they did make Dave’s dreams come true for example and get in Iraola in the summer, I don’t think we’d all be focused on him finishing below us this particular season with Bournemouth ya know?

Doesn’t really matter tho

 

[Scally1878]

Bit of an out there shout but I reckon Danny Röhl to me feels like he could be a very good manager in a few years. Was very impressed with what he was doing at Sheff Wed, had a good start with Rangers as well but time will tell as he’s still young.

 

[Sam0697]

Bit of an out there shout but I reckon Danny Röhl to me feels like he could be a very good manager in a few years. Was very impressed with what he was doing at Sheff Wed, had a good start with Rangers as well but time will tell as he’s still young.

I was surprised when he went to Rangers, I thought he would've had a shot at a top championship side this season to get into the prem. I guess after none of them went for him in the summer he decided Rangers were a big opportunity.

 

[Scally1878]

I was surprised when he went to Rangers, I thought he would've had a shot at a top championship side this season to get into the prem. I guess after none of them went for him in the summer he decided Rangers were a big opportunity.

Agreed. He’s far too good for Scottish league. If he does well there he’ll for sure get taken a chance on by at least a bottom half prem team, maybe even higher depending on what he accomplishes.

 

[Billy Dean]

I was surprised when he went to Rangers, I thought he would've had a shot at a top championship side this season to get into the prem. I guess after none of them went for him in the summer he decided Rangers were a big opportunity.

I guess the advantage with the likes of Rangers is you get to showcase your talents in Europe and you get the chance to lift silverware which looks good on your CV