Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

Haha are you sure you're not Roberto. There is no failure. Great joke

It doesn't feel like failure. If we were in 7th or 8th right now I'd feel the same way. If we were 5th or 6th I'd still feel the same way.

Maybe you see those positions as success? I cant understand that.

We're developing our style and deepening our squad strength. That's all I see.

 

[MikeH72]

Which isn't a bad thing...Moyes proved over more than a decade he didn't have the ability to win F all. Why anyone would still be in his court after over a decade of failure and since been sacked twice is beyond me. He was what we need at the time. Nothing more/nothing less. He stabilized us when the league was completely different financially.

We can get out spent by loads of teams these days.

Why do you have to be in either manager's court? Why can't people hold the opinion that Moyes wasn't good enough to take us to the next level, and neither is Martinez?

 

[davek]

Why do you have to be in either manager's court? Why can't people hold the opinion that Moyes wasn't good enough to take us to the next level, and neither is Martinez?

Martinez is better than Moyes. He just is., If you have two eyes in your head and watch football you see the massive difference in class of this Everton team compared to the semi-agriculrural muck served up by Moyes' teams.

It isn't that hard to see, tbh.

 

[steken1]

Nah mate, no can do, it has to fit into the pass pass possession philosophy. You can do one or the other. This is the whole Martinez Dichotomy, he has a serious dose of doublethink going on... and maybe doesn't even know it.

This play better away / hit em on the break stuff is cup form...so long as you get drawn away

For me the way to do well in the PL is Mirror how Ferguson set his sides up to play. Good wingers, a good ball player in CM and strikers who can do everything.

High tempo, counter attack when it's on, and keep the ball when it isn't but always, always put pressure on the other side by getting crosses into the box, shooting from around the box and getting in behind their full backs. It was simple and brilliant. We've got all the players to do it, and sometimes we do.

All this philosophy bollocks is ego. Many a time Steve Bruce got his big ugly bonce on it up top in the last few minutes. Doesn't take nothing away from what they won.

 

[davek]

For me the way to do well in the PL is Mirror how Ferguson set his sides up to play. Good wingers, a good ball player in CM and strikers who can do everything.

High tempo, counter attack when it's on, and keep the ball when it isn't but always, always put pressure on the other side by getting crosses into the box, shooting from around the box and getting in behind their full backs. It was simple and brilliant. We've got all the players to do it, and sometimes we do.

All this philosophy bollocks is ego. Many a time Steve Bruce got his big ugly bonce on it up top in the last few minutes. Doesn't take nothing away from what they won.

You left out the GK spot in all that. United could go out and spend a fortune on a GK and if they didn't work out tear up his contract and get the next world class phenomenon in. They had world class GKs they were prepared to pay for. That was the rock they were built on. We have limited funds. If Martinez had the same resources we wouldn't be looking at Robles as our saviour from a GK quite obviously two or three seasons past barely adequate. Put Van der Sar in this team or De Gea or Schmiechel and we'd be troubling the CL spots.

 

[AndyC]

There is no failure. No one sensible can look at the football we've been playing throughout this season and the deepening and advance of a squad of players and call it failure. And, btw, no one can call the PL position failure - even if it stays where it is. You fail in this league when you're in a relegation dog fight, unless you're one of the financially doped clubs, that is.

With respect Dave and with this current squad and some/most of the attacking football we've played/ hopefully continue to play, the fans are perhaps entitled to feel that 10th or lower is a failure.
To my mind, this squad should be at least 8th or higher, and if/when we get a top goalie in the summer to replace TH, and hopefully no departures other than aging, end of contract players then we should be expecting top 6 and a cup next season as a minimum return.

 

[degsy]

For me the way to do well in the PL is Mirror how Ferguson set his sides up to play. Good wingers, a good ball player in CM and strikers who can do everything.

High tempo, counter attack when it's on, and keep the ball when it isn't but always, always put pressure on the other side by getting crosses into the box, shooting from around the box and getting in behind their full backs. It was simple and brilliant. We've got all the players to do it, and sometimes we do.

All this philosophy bollocks is ego. Many a time Steve Bruce got his big ugly bonce on it up top in the last few minutes. Doesn't take nothing away from what they won.

and before @davek ( if he hasn't got me on ignore ) calls us for kick and rush longball merchants. United weren't the worst footballing side you ever saw were they.

 

[jceverton]

Martinez is better than Moyes. He just is., If you have two eyes in your head and watch football you see the massive difference in class of this Everton team compared to the semi-agriculrural muck served up by Moyes' teams.

It isn't that hard to see, tbh.

Martinez maybe better than Moyes but that doesn't exactly counter the argument Mikeh72 was making that neither of them are good enough.

 

[degsy]

You left out the GK spot in all that. United could go out and spend a fortune on a GK and if they didn't work out tear up his contract and get the next world class phenomenon in. They had world class GKs they were prepared to pay for. That was the rock they were built on. We have limited funds. If Martinez had the same resources we wouldn't be looking at Robles as our saviour from a GK quite obviously two or three seasons past barely adequate. Put Van der Sar in this team or De Gea or Schmiechel and we'd be troubling the CL spots.

so it's nowt to do with Martinez then it's all Howards fault.

 

[davek]

With respect Dave and with this current squad and some/most of the attacking football we've played/ hopefully continue to play, the fans are perhaps entitled to feel that 10th or lower is a failure.
To my mind, this squad should be at least 8th or higher, and if/when we get a top goalie in the summer to replace TH, and hopefully no departures other than aging, end of contract players then we should be expecting top 6 and a cup next season as a minimum return.

A good GK with this first team squad would be flying, imo.

If over emphasising the EL was last season's error, Martine's error this season was not securing a better GK for the season.

 

[davek]

Martinez maybe better than Moyes but that doesn't exactly counter the argument Mikeh72 was making that neither of them are good enough.

The only way of bettering the managerial situation for sure (rather than taking another punt) is to get a world class manager in. And they are not in our orbit I'm afraid.

 

[degsy]

Martinez maybe better than Moyes but that doesn't exactly counter the argument Mikeh72 was making that neither of them are good enough.

which is all too true *pushes his Goldilocks Option once again.

 

[steken1]

You left out the GK spot in all that. United could go out and spend a fortune on a GK and if they didn't work out tear up his contract and get the next world class phenomenon in. They had world class GKs they were prepared to pay for. That was the rock they were built on. We have limited funds. If Martinez had the same resources we wouldn't be looking at Robles as our saviour from a GK quite obviously two or three seasons past barely adequate. Put Van der Sar in this team or De Gea or Schmiechel and we'd be troubling the CL spots.

Dave, look at what they paid for Schmeichel and Van Der Sar. Good keepers can be had pretty cheap.

If he'd played Joel we'd be troubling the CL spots. Of that I have zero doubt.

We've been playing football 'touched by the gods' and spent 13.5m on a striker no ones heard of. He could've bought a serious cat for that type of money. That said we don't need one IMO. Robles will show himself to be a superb keeper given time. For me persevering with Howard has thrown our league campaign away.

 

[davek]

so it's nowt to do with Martinez then it's all Howards fault.

It's largely down to him this goals conceded record.

 

[steken1]

It's largely down to him this goals conceded record.

And the man who picked him if we're being honest.