Roberto Martinez discussion

[davek]

I'd give you a waggle of the hand on that, but I think there maybe a bit more to our overall defensive frailty than Timmbo being a bit or even a lot past it.

There is more to it, defo. But if we had an adequate GK in this season then he'd have earned us at least 6/7 points and that would see us comfortably 5th.

I dont think theres any doubt about that. The GK situation has killed us.

 

[Woolly Blue]

I think, the difference is most of us in here support Everton FC, whereas davek supports Roberto Martinez.

For that reason we will never agree.

Cheerio lad
Back to RAWK it is for you.

 

[degsy]

There is more to it, defo. But if we had an adequate GK in this season then he'd have earned us at least 6/7 points and that would see us comfortably 5th.

I dont think theres any doubt about that. The GK situation has killed us.

between times I put an edit in that last one

 

[bicycleheader]

With respect Dave and with this current squad and some/most of the attacking football we've played/ hopefully continue to play, the fans are perhaps entitled to feel that 10th or lower is a failure.
To my mind, this squad should be at least 8th or higher, and if/when we get a top goalie in the summer to replace TH, and hopefully no departures other than aging, end of contract players then we should be expecting top 6 and a cup next season as a minimum return.

we are currently 3pts off 8th and 6pts off 5th.

 

[AndyC]

we are currently 3pts off 8th and 6pts off 5th.

And if by season end, we've got to either 8th or preferably 5th, we can therefore judge the season as relatively successful and not a failure.
Tenth or lower and I for one will be thoroughly underwhelmed and I suspect there'll be many more like me!!
@Dario Terracotta @The Esk @Khalekan @Groucho @Woolly Blue

 

[Khalekan]

And if by season end, we've got to either 8th or preferably 5th, we can therefore judge the season as relatively successful and not a failure.
Tenth or lower and I for one will be thoroughly underwhelmed and I suspect there'll be many more like me!!
@Dario Terracotta @The Esk @Khalekan @Groucho @Woolly Blue

For sure, Block.

 

[bicycleheader]

Lloris cost Spurs £8m, the same as one Steven sodding Naismith cost Norwich. The "keepers are too expensive" argument holds absolutely no water

In fairness I think he is probably on a higher wage than our top earner. There's a lot of players we could or would pay the fee but would be beaten when it comes to our contra ct off by many clubs....i reckon anyway.

Will be very interesting to see who he goes for.

 

[bicycleheader]

And if by season end, we've got to either 8th or preferably 5th, we can therefore judge the season as relatively successful and not a failure.
Tenth or lower and I for one will be thoroughly underwhelmed and I suspect there'll be many more like me!!
@Dario Terracotta @The Esk @Khalekan @Groucho @Woolly Blue

thats fine but its a little bit silly to me over worrying and analysing the current position and discussing whether the manager should go IF you are setting us a target that we are only 3/6 points off

 

[MikeH72]

In fairness I think he is probably on a higher wage than our top earner. There's a lot of players we could or would pay the fee but would be beaten when it comes to our contra ct off by many clubs....i reckon anyway.

Will be very interesting to see who he goes for.

Wouldn't be so sure about that, plus if we get rid of Howard then we'll save the £50k a week or so that he's been stealing off the club for the past 3 years, I think we could more than cover Sirigu's wages. There were vague rumours in January that we were after him, I'd like to see it pursued in the summer

 

[hullefc]

For me the way to do well in the PL is Mirror how Ferguson set his sides up to play. Good wingers, a good ball player in CM and strikers who can do everything.

High tempo, counter attack when it's on, and keep the ball when it isn't but always, always put pressure on the other side by getting crosses into the box, shooting from around the box and getting in behind their full backs. It was simple and brilliant. We've got all the players to do it, and sometimes we do.

All this philosophy bollocks is ego. Many a time Steve Bruce got his big ugly bonce on it up top in the last few minutes. Doesn't take nothing away from what they won.

Catterick and Kendall also did the things Ferguson did. Mostly play the same team but change it during the game but you need a particular type of player or players in there for it to work, imo. Catterick had Kendall and Harvey ( his 'brains' on the pitch) in the middle and Kendall had Reid and Ratcliffe. Players that can read the game and get the team to adjust on the pitch. That is why Ferguson put so much into getting Roy Keane. But you also need those players with a bit of magic like Bally and Sheedy/Stevens or Cantona. Clough took McGovern around with him as his 'brains' on the pitch. It is obviously a bit more complex that I am expressing.

At the moment we haven't got a player that has the presence so can drive/change the shape on the pitch. A midfield with Besic and McCarthy in it, may develop into something more than it is at present. But McCarthy is 'too quiet' for me and Besic is still finding his feet but shows very good signs of being a leader.

Away from home imo we have generally cracked it - notwithstanding missing loads of chances, seeing out games, different substitutions, individual defensive mistakes and poor officiating, as the results show. Won 4 drawn 7 lost 1, goals scored 19 goals conceded 12 in 12 away games.

At home the shape of the team/position of the players does change, but as the results shows, we are not doing enough at the moment. Our home form is the issue. How it is addressed is for me the main discussion.

 

[AndyC]

thats fine but its a little bit silly to me over worrying and analysing the current position and discussing whether the manager should go IF you are setting us a target that we are only 3/6 points off

I was merely making a point, not actively suggesting that the manager should be sacked.

 

[Duncan Disordely]

Roberto Martinez says Everton's season would be a failure even if they WIN the FA Cup final

The Blues boss didn't agree lifting the trophy at Wembley would make up for a disappointing league campaign saying 'Our points tally is not good enough'

Everton boss Roberto Martinez says this season will go down as a failure for the Goodison club, even if they end up as FA Cup winners.

The Blues visit Bournemouth on Saturday looking for a place in the quarter-finals which – combined with an impressive Capital One Cup campaign – would highlight the quality in the Everton squad.

But it is that obvious talent in the side that makes Martinez demand far more from his players, particularly in the bread and butter of the Premier League.


The Spaniard reckons it’s the best Everton squad in years and, when asked if winning the FA Cup would make up for a disappointing league campaign, he replied: “No. It would still be a really disappointing season.

"You have to progress from season to season, but this season our points tally is not good enough.

“Our away form has been what we wanted but our home form has been tough to take. If we could have replicated the away form at home we would be talking about a team fighting to get into a top-four position.

“That is how close we are. A team that can score the amount of goals we have and play the way we have throughout the season can challenge anyone. The semi-final of the League Cup against Manchester City showed that.

“So I wouldn’t be happy to finish the league campaign in the position we are in the table.”

Martinez’s frustration is not based solely on the underachievement of a squad with such obvious quality.

It suggests he also suspects failure to get closer to the top four will persuade some of his most promising stars to look elsewhere.
“The last three months of your campaign is what gives you the perception of a good or bad season,” added Martinez. “You can only build winning teams around players who want to be part of your football club and are going to be fighting for your club.

“If a player feels it’s time to move on.. that’s the modern game. It is nothing that you are going to change but now is the most important part of the season – the final third.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/roberto-martinez-says-evertons-season-7405042

 

[royalblue66]

Failure. There you have it.

 

[hullefc]

A bit of a worry I know but I've been thinking...

Back in the early days when all was sweetness and light on the brown shoe front. We, the team and fans, had to learn this possession stuff and pretty soon we were sort of getting it but still with the training wheels on. We could grasp the point of keeping the ball as they can't score without it.
We were inundated in 60%'s V's this team and 65%'s V's that team. To be fair we initially clung to these stats. Then came Boxing day 2013 V's Sunderland with the Howard Osman soft shoe shuffle. This in my opinion is where it all started to go down hill.
Fast forward to WBA, most of us have left those early day behind and now see that possession without an end result...ANY RESULT! Is pointless...In both senses of the word.

Now this is where I need help...No, not to get to the point, I've got that sorted.

FA Cup V's Roberto's Wigan. That winning performance with minimum possession. This and this alone - was and is the true Roberto...but I don't think he knows or sees this. When He and We win like this and we do seem to do it quite a lot. I think he says to himself, 'Not exactly what the Philosophy is about but I'll take it.'

Back to the help...I need a 'Statto' to sort our wins by possession. Because I feel this is the true Roberto, not the massive possession pass them to death, walk the ball into the net.

Not to defend or crucify him just to place him...I still want him gone.

The bold bit. Throughout his managerial career he has done a few things differently for example at Swansea it was possession based and at Wigan he tried the possession - playing from the back but also developed a counter attacking style that kept them in the Premier League.

How many teams would go to Wigan and park the bus? The 'parking the bus' is a relatively new issue for him to deal with. At the moment he is still struggling to come to grips with this. His first 2 seasons we won at home from good play and also a bit of luck at times and good defending by the players. But more and more managers are going away from home and playing on the counter - parking the bus and hitting teams on the break. 'Defending' does become an issue as does defenders concentrating for the 90 minutes and getting in the right spot to defend.

Martinez needs to develop a 'style/type' of play that can win against teams that 'park the bus/play on the counter'.

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

There is more to it, defo. But if we had an adequate GK in this season then he'd have earned us at least 6/7 points and that would see us comfortably 5th.

I dont think theres any doubt about that. The GK situation has killed us.

Dave, can I ask you something, given you're a pro-BOBBLER, and it's a genuine question BTW mate in that I'm not seeking to antagonise at all, oh, and if you've answered it before then apologies....

...but why do you think he didn't address the GK situation sooner, particularly in light of it being glaringly obvious to all?