Roberto Martinez discussion

[bicycleheader]

For me its just using the forum for what its for, an expression of views.

Imagine how boring this place would be without the constant back and forth, nobody HAS to read, if Dave bothers people, put him on ignore, if the people replying to Dave bother people, put them on ignore.

Ive got 50+ people on ignore on this forum, theres some people, no matter what they say, that I simply do not wish to read, it makes my forum experience a joy.

In one way true.

But if you are not just expressing your view but deliberately putting it in ways to pull in as much of a reaction as possible its a different thing.

I think the back and forth caused by this particular posters way of writing is just dull at this point and completely clogs up threads and sidetracks any attempt at a normal discussion.

 

[Zatara]

He left it needing overhauling - his own words, btw concerning the age of the group he left.

Yes exactly, anyone just needs to also look over at UTD.

Same manager for many years
Ageing team
Processes need changing
Set culture inside the team and even the club


Martinez also changed the style and inner workings of the club and you could argue its a bigger job than either Moyes or LVG have had at UTD.

 

[ilikecheese]

I actually believe that's why he's so staunchly obsessed with Martinez. Just because he's not Moyes

Which isn't a bad thing...Moyes proved over more than a decade he didn't have the ability to win F all. Why anyone would still be in his court after over a decade of failure and since been sacked twice is beyond me. He was what we need at the time. Nothing more/nothing less. He stabilized us when the league was completely different financially.

We can get out spent by loads of teams these days.

 

[bluewally]

Which isn't a bad thing...Moyes proved over more than a decade he didn't have the ability to win F all. Why anyone would still be in his court after over a decade of failure and since been sacked twice is beyond me. He was what we need at the time. Nothing more/nothing less. He stabilized us when the league was completely different financially.

We can get out spent by loads of teams these days.

I don't think anyone would want him back but are just pointing out that Martinez is no better results wise

 

[ilikecheese]

I don't think anyone would want him back but are just pointing out that Martinez is no better results wise

Oh there is defo a certain faction who would have him back in a heartbeat. The comparisons are not apples to apples as much as folks want to make them. £28 mil is a massive number...I reckon on today's economics the £11.5 on Yak is about the same in comparison.

My biggest problem with the whole argument with Moyes is he was given 11 years...2 of his first 3 were disasters.

Yes Martinez was given a better squad, but was it really that much better comparatively? Compared to the league? Are the financial statuses the same league wide? Are we in the same financial ranking position that we were then as were are now? Not really...we live among the poor, rich clubs.

Moyes was never treated with the crap support Martinez has got...the atmosphere is not productive. Wish the match goers would get it through their heads that it is counterproductive to create a negative environment. It only increases the opponent's confidence and decreases ours.

Thankfully the away support has been ace.

 

[chicoazul]

A bit of a worry I know but I've been thinking...

Back in the early days when all was sweetness and light on the brown shoe front. We, the team and fans, had to learn this possession stuff and pretty soon we were sort of getting it but still with the training wheels on. We could grasp the point of keeping the ball as they can't score without it.
We were inundated in 60%'s V's this team and 65%'s V's that team. To be fair we initially clung to these stats. Then came Boxing day 2013 V's Sunderland with the Howard Osman soft shoe shuffle. This in my opinion is where it all started to go down hill.
Fast forward to WBA, most of us have left those early day behind and now see that possession without an end result...ANY RESULT! Is pointless...In both senses of the word.

Now this is where I need help...No, not to get to the point, I've got that sorted.

FA Cup V's Roberto's Wigan. That winning performance with minimum possession. This and this alone - was and is the true Roberto...but I don't think he knows or sees this. When He and We win like this and we do seem to do it quite a lot. I think he says to himself, 'Not exactly what the Philosophy is about but I'll take it.'

Back to the help...I need a 'Statto' to sort our wins by possession. Because I feel this is the true Roberto, not the massive possession pass them to death, walk the ball into the net.

Not to defend or crucify him just to place him...I still want him gone.

That's utter madness man. Utter.

 

[degsy]

That's utter madness man. Utter.

Or is it? Until I see the stats, we'll none of us know. we're in the realms of Heisenberg and Schrodinger here. I might even momentarily rouse myself from my default state of CBA to actually find out...maybe... or do you wanna be my statto-bish you tech savvy young whippersnapper...It might give you something to do on while you're on that fence

 

[Polish_Blue_Army]

Remember - next season is after Euros so there will be one another excuse for martinez to make if he stays

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

Imagine if on RAWK they started blaming the crowd for the managers shortcomings. You lot would be pissing yourselves.

 

[degsy]

Oh there is defo a certain faction who would have him back in a heartbeat. The comparisons are not apples to apples as much as folks want to make them. £28 mil is a massive number...I reckon on today's economics the £11.5 on Yak is about the same in comparison.

My biggest problem with the whole argument with Moyes is he was given 11 years...2 of his first 3 were disasters.

Yes Martinez was given a better squad, but was it really that much better comparatively? Compared to the league? Are the financial statuses the same league wide? Are we in the same financial ranking position that we were then as were are now? Not really...we live among the poor, rich But just rightclubs.

Moyes was never treated with the crap support Martinez has got...the atmosphere is not productive. Wish the match goers would get it through their heads that it is counterproductive to create a negative environment. It only increases the opponent's confidence and decreases ours.

Thankfully the away support has been ace.

Not me mate, I'm looking for the 'Goldilocks Option' - Not too much Moyes, Not too much Martinez, But just right...and have been for 18mths.

 

[degsy]

A bit of a worry I know but I've been thinking...

Back in the early days when all was sweetness and light on the brown shoe front. We, the team and fans, had to learn this possession stuff and pretty soon we were sort of getting it but still with the training wheels on. We could grasp the point of keeping the ball as they can't score without it.
We were inundated in 60%'s V's this team and 65%'s V's that team. To be fair we initially clung to these stats. Then came Boxing day 2013 V's Sunderland with the Howard Osman soft shoe shuffle. This in my opinion is where it all started to go down hill.
Fast forward to WBA, most of us have left those early day behind and now see that possession without an end result...ANY RESULT! Is pointless...In both senses of the word.

Now this is where I need help...No, not to get to the point, I've got that sorted.

FA Cup V's Roberto's Wigan. That winning performance with minimum possession. This and this alone - was and is the true Roberto...but I don't think he knows or sees this. When He and We win like this and we do seem to do it quite a lot. I think he says to himself, 'Not exactly what the Philosophy is about but I'll take it.'

Back to the help...I need a 'Statto' to sort our wins by possession. Because I feel this is the true Roberto, not the massive possession pass them to death, walk the ball into the net.

Not to defend or crucify him just to place him...I still want him gone.

@chicoazul; here are the stats;

Home
WBA 76% L 0-1!
New 55 W 3-0*
Swan 55 L 1-2!
Stoke 51 L 3-4!
Spurs 50 D 0-0?
Leic 65 L 2-3!
CPal 59 D 1-1!
Villa 60 W 3-0*
Sund 63 W 6-2*
Untd 53 L 0-3#Howie
RS 48 D 1-1 unquantifiable
Chel 45 W 3-0*
What 68 D 2-2! for my argument I only count wins at Home as 'good' = * # = 'bad' ? = meh

Away
Stoke 41% W 0-3*
Chel 45 D 3-3*
Newc 61 W 0-1*
Bourn 43 D 3-3*
WHU 49 D 1-1*
Arsl 40 L 1-2?
WBA 57 W 2-3*
Swan 42 D 2-2*
Spurs 52 D 0-0*
South 35 W 0-3* and wins and draws as 'good' away

So which is it Home and away form or too much possession or a bit of both.

As I would I'm for it's all Martinez's fault, he thinks he want possession in theory but in fact , like Vs EFC and City in the cup he is actually more effective on the break with less possession.

Or not, I mean its stats and interpretation innit.

 

[The Penalty Box Dancer]

Remember - next season is after Euros so there will be one another excuse for martinez to make if he stays

What we must remember is Martinez is still a manager learning and his pre-season wasn't properly planned in conjunction with the World Cup, I'd say he has learned from that and going forward we will be more suitably prepared for the season. If we qualify for Europe I think we would be in a better position squad size wise

 

[steken1]

@chicoazul; here are the stats;

Home
WBA 76% L 0-1!
New 55 W 3-0*
Swan 55 L 1-2!
Stoke 51 L 3-4!
Spurs 50 D 0-0?
Leic 65 L 2-3!
CPal 59 D 1-1!
Villa 60 W 3-0*
Sund 63 W 6-2*
Untd 53 L 0-3#Howie
RS 48 D 1-1 unquantifiable
Chel 45 W 3-0*
What 68 D 2-2! for my argument I only count wins at Home as 'good' = * # = 'bad' ? = meh

Away
Stoke 41% W 0-3*
Chel 45 D 3-3*
Newc 61 W 0-1*
Bourn 43 D 3-3*
WHU 49 D 1-1*
Arsl 40 L 1-2?
WBA 57 W 2-3*
Swan 42 D 2-2*
Spurs 52 D 0-0*
South 35 W 0-3* and wins and draws as 'good' away

So which is it Home and away form or too much possession or a bit of both.

As I would I'm for it's all Martinez's fault, he thinks he want possession in theory but in fact , like Vs EFC and City in the cup he is actually more effective on the break with less possession.

Or not, I mean its stats and interpretation innit.

I've said for a while we've got everything in place to be an outrageous counter attacking side. But, play long, short, possession, counter and do it all in the one game. We'd be a dangerous unpredictable beast.

 

[beautifulthing]

What we must remember is Martinez is still a manager learning and his pre-season wasn't properly planned in conjunction with the World Cup, I'd say he has learned from that and going forward we will be more suitably prepared for the season. If we qualify for Europe I think we would be in a better position squad size wise

Been managing for 9 years.

 

[blueser]

he needs binned before we lose half the team, with a top manager this team could do very well