Nikica Jelavic

[Azzurri]

Nothing like the same thing. We're talking about individual player performance.

There's four or five people on the other page who agree, why not tell them they're being ridiculous.

Because they're not metaphorically pinning people down and bumming them while screaming 'MOVEMENT IS GOOD'.




All I'm saying is that good movement is a good sign because it shows a player is using their brain and intent to get into dangerous goal scoring opportunities, but if they don't score or assist from any of them over a fairly long period of time then they were pointless. Surely you can see the logic there?

 

[Tubey]

Because they're not metaphorically pinning people down and bumming them while screaming 'MOVEMENT IS GOOD'.




All I'm saying is that good movement is a good sign because it shows a player is using their brain and intent to get into dangerous goal scoring opportunities, but if they don't score or assist from any of them over a fairly long period of time then they were pointless. Surely you can see the logic there?

Blue part, absolutely.

Red part, no absolutely not, can't see the logic at all. Specifically because you used the word "pointless" which is massively disregarding the role of intelligent movement in the modern game in all areas of play, not just finishing. Those runs drag players out of position, allow him to get into positions for hold up play, open gaps for teammates, win possession in advanced areas etc. Goals are just a fraction of the result of good movement.

I'd agree if you had said this:

All I'm saying is that good movement is a good sign because it shows a player is using their brain and intent to get into dangerous goal scoring opportunities, but if they don't score or assist from any of them over a fairly long period of time then they are not firing on all cylinders and fulfilling everything needed for the role of striker. However, that does not mean his performances are poor, merely that is goalscoring instincts are off key.

 

[Brownie]

It's possible to be a decent striker with intelligent movement and one touch finishing, it just means you have to rely on luck a bit because you need to be given easy passes or hope things fall for you. A lack of technique in other areas though means you're unable to influence the game in other ways, particularly the ability to create chances for yourself. You rarely see players of this type being main starters, with their attributes being more suited to coming off the bench if you need to sacrifice general play in favour of chasing a goal.

 

[pfim]

I'm not really arsed where the goals come from if we're winning games.

Completely agree, but we haven't been winning a ton of games.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Which is why the following is mind-numbingly stupid...

The RUN was intended, so everything that results from that run is attributable to the movement being made. To put it VERY simply, if he doesn't make that run, the goal isn't scored, meaning the movement is valid.

NOBODY can be this stupid - I refuse to believe anybody can be this mind-numbingly dumb. This is by far and away the most stupid thing I've seen on GOT since pgheverton.

You're the only one completely neglecting the fact he made a run to get in that position. Stupid.

So Jelavic ran into the box, so what?

Once directly in front of goal (which is where you'd expect to find him, with him being our lone striker & all) he had an airshot at Osmans flicked header & the header crept in due to the keeper reacting to the shot he expected to come from Jelavic.

So you'd give him an assist or a massive pat on the back for an airshot 8 yards from goal, merely because he ran into the box? Move over Mourinho as Tubey (very apt name btw) is in town.

Stupid? Dumb? great debating skills lad.

 

[Tubey]

It's possible to be a decent striker with intelligent movement and one touch finishing, it just means you have to rely on luck a bit because you need to be given easy passes or hope things fall for you. A lack of technique in other areas though means you're unable to influence the game in other ways, particularly the ability to create chances for yourself. You rarely see players of this type being main starters, with their attributes being more suited to coming off the bench if you need to sacrifice general play in favour of chasing a goal.

Good post. In the old days they were known as poachers, and as you say they relied on an entire system being in place to get the best out of them.

I think Jelavic has more to his game than a traditional poacher though as he gets himself about and doesn't solely rest on the shoulder of the last man (although that's where his best work is), so as proven last year he can work well as a starter in the Premier League.

Issue with a poacher is that they're by definition confidence players. What is definitely true about Jelavic is that at the moment he's almost taking a sharp intake of breath before taking on a chance and invariably fluffing his lines, because he's so desperate to put them away. You can see it on his face - even when Ossies goal went in he was devastated he hadn't got on the end of it.

But it'll come. I can see the talent hasn't gone and he'll find the net soon enough, and we'll start laughing at people suggesting we get rid for £5m in the summer etc.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Blue part, absolutely.

Red part, no absolutely not, can't see the logic at all. Specifically because you used the word "pointless" which is massively disregarding the role of intelligent movement in the modern game in all areas of play, not just finishing. Those runs drag players out of position, allow him to get into positions for hold up play, open gaps for teammates, win possession in advanced areas etc. Goals are just a fraction of the result of good movement.

I'd agree if you had said this:

All I'm saying is that good movement is a good sign because it shows a player is using their brain and intent to get into dangerous goal scoring opportunities, but if they don't score or assist from any of them over a fairly long period of time then they are not firing on all cylinders and fulfilling everything needed for the role of striker. However, that does not mean his performances are poor, merely that is goalscoring instincts are off key.

& the award for the most pedantic post of the week goes to..............

 

[Azzurri]

Blue part, absolutely.

Red part, no absolutely not, can't see the logic at all. Specifically because you used the word "pointless" which is massively disregarding the role of intelligent movement in the modern game in all areas of play, not just finishing. Those runs drag players out of position, allow him to get into positions for hold up play, open gaps for teammates, win possession in advanced areas etc. Goals are just a fraction of the result of good movement.

I'd agree if you had said this:

All I'm saying is that good movement is a good sign because it shows a player is using their brain and intent to get into dangerous goal scoring opportunities, but if they don't score or assist from any of them over a fairly long period of time then they are not firing on all cylinders and fulfilling everything needed for the role of striker. However, that does not mean his performances are poor, merely that is goalscoring instincts are off key.

Ah, well maybe that's where we're disagreeing. I thought you were talking about movement inside the box or on the shoulder of the last man.

I'm just saying that if you make the best run in the world to go through on goal but don't score you've gained nothing.

 

[Tubey]

So Jelavic ran into the box, so what?

Once directly in front of goal (which is where you'd expect to find him, with him being our lone striker & all) he had an airshot at Osmans flicked header & the header crept in due to the keeper reacting to the shot he expected to come from Jelavic.

So you'd give him an assist or a massive pat on the back for an airshot 8 yards from goal, merely because he ran into the box? Move over Mourinho as Tubey (very apt name btw) is in town.

Stupid? Dumb? great debating skills lad.

Yes. Hole in one. Massive credit for the movement, shame about the finish but he got in the right position.

Like what he did here:

Here's a handy GIF:

Remember that one? Ball came in from an angle, deflected on by a player, Jelavic makes the run...

You know the sole difference between last night and his Spurs goal? Six inches of space. That's it. That's why people with half a footballing brain acknowledge the movement from Jelavic last night. Your the only one here who isn't. Davek acknowledges it's important, so does Azzurri etc. etc. You're literally the only person who doesn't.

And you're right actually, I shouldn't call you anything. I should just encourage you to post more, as it's going to be apparent to everyone anyway.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Ah, well maybe that's where we're disagreeing. I thought you were talking about movement inside the box or on the shoulder of the last man.

I'm just saying that if you make the best run in the world to go through on goal but don't score you've gained nothing.

We were & of course you're correct, as great movement with no end product means knack all. He's avoided all afternoon, the simple example of a striker with great movement & 2 left feet, therefore being a crap striker, as he doesn't score!

(cue: idiot, stupid, I'm a genius, you know nothing, I've played FM for years, 4-4-2 on subscription me lid, repost)

 

[Tubey]

& the award for the most pedantic post of the week goes to..............

There's nothing pedantic about questioning the word "pointless". Obviously.

Ah, well maybe that's where we're disagreeing. I thought you were talking about movement inside the box or on the shoulder of the last man.

I'm just saying that if you make the best run in the world to go through on goal but don't score you've gained nothing.

Nah mate, I'm talking about his overall game. To quote Foot Long Hot Dog, Jelavic's performance yesterday was "rank". I'm simply pointing out it wasn't at all, his movement was encouraging, he was heavily involved in play and the negatives - his finishing basically - will come with confidence.

No worries about the confusion though.

 

[bluebottle]

Nah mate, I'm talking about his overall game. To quote Foot Long Hot Dog, Jelavic's performance yesterday was "rank". I'm simply pointing out it wasn't at all, his movement was encouraging, he was heavily involved in play and the negatives - his finishing basically - will come with confidence.

But what to instill this confidence? He needs to score in a couple of games on the bounce to rediscover form as one offs have happened a few times this season. Given the way he is playing I cant really see that happening.

 

[Tubey]

We were & of course you're correct, as great movement with no end product means knack all. He's avoided all afternoon, the simple example of a striker with great movement & 2 left feet, therefore being a crap striker, as he doesn't score!

(cue: idiot, stupid, I'm a genius, you know nothing, I've played FM for years, 4-4-2 on subscription me lid, repost)

Yeah...

His work rate was ok, but he had the touch of a rapist & overall he was rank

OK.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Remember that one? Ball came in from an angle, deflected on by a player, Jelavic makes the run...

You know the sole difference between last night and his Spurs goal? Six inches of space. That's it. That's why people with half a footballing brain acknowledge the movement from Jelavic last night. Your the only one here who isn't. Davek acknowledges it's important, so does Azzurri etc. etc. You're literally the only person who doesn't.

And you're right actually, I shouldn't call you anything. I should just encourage you to post more, as it's going to be apparent to everyone anyway.

The exact difference between last night & the Spurs goal, was against Spurs he hit the target & SCORED, last night he took an air shot.

Of course movement is important you pedant, but movement without a finish on a consistent basis means there's no end product & it therefore ultimately adds no value. Your inability to seperate a basic football reality from your subjective defence of Jelavic is both cringeworthy & idiotic.

 

[Tubey]

But what to instill this confidence? He needs to score in a couple of games on the bounce to rediscover form as one offs have happened a few times this season. Given the way he is playing I cant really see that happening.

That's your opinion mate and that's fine. I'm seeing the total opposite from that performance last night.

It depends if you're looking at his overall performance or just his finishing. If you're going on his finishing, obviously we may as well have Vellios on the pitch as Jelavic was poor. But I look at it this way - he was involved often enough last night for you to actually notice he was missing. If he was completely anonymous, I'd be far, far more concerned.