Make sure you wave goodby to Moyes today..!!!!

[ToffeeBlueNose]

Bent cost £24million totally extortionate, If Villa want to take risks with their finances like that they can, I for one am glad we do not get sucked into paying huge transfer fees for mediocre players. At the end of the day we are 7th going into todays game when you look at the money being spent above us i think thats a pretty bloody good return off Davey and the lads, a couple of those draws to wins n we are knocking on the door , where are Villa?

 

[RFUS]

Bent cost £24million totally extortionate, If Villa want to take risks with their finances like that they can, I for one am glad we do not get sucked into paying huge transfer fees for mediocre players. At the end of the day we are 7th going into todays game when you look at the money being spent above us i think thats a pretty bloody good return off Davey and the lads, a couple of those draws to wins n we are knocking on the door , where are Villa?

1.) Darren Bent was £18m + up to £6m in add-ons.

2.) He is anything but mediocre. He has almost single-handedly turned them around this season; he's third top scorer in the league and has 9 in 15 for them.


It did seem expensive at the time, and yes, the fee they paid probably was. But he is scoring goals freely for them, and we could have used someone like him this season.

 

[ToffeeBlueNose]

1.) Darren Bent was £18m + up to £6m in add-ons.

2.) He is anything but mediocre. He has almost single-handedly turned them around this season; he's third top scorer in the league and has 9 in 15 for them.



It did seem expensive at the time, and yes, the fee they paid probably was. But he is scoring goals freely for them, and we could have used someone like him this season.

Yes he scores goals but he's disloyal, seems to think he is better than he is and follows the money ask steve bruce. There must be a reason none of the 'big clubs' won't take him on if he's that good. Big fish small pond syndrome. ,

 

[Neiler]

My biggest worry with us mate is that whilst our debt is comparatively small, we're not going anywhere. It's building and it needs repaying, but we're slipping.

If Everton had one terrible season and got relegated -- unlikely, but imagine a season without the regular late surge -- we'd never recover. That debt would go from seeming okay to unmanageable. I'd half expect us to go into administration and die.

At the moment we're taking no risks, and reaping no rewards. I think I'd rather see us role the dice, go into a bit more debt, but bring in some fresh blood. I'm not content with mediocrity, and that's what we're heading for. And as I said, the thought of relegation... it doesn't bear thinking about. It may seem unlikely, but imagine if Moyes left and we got a crap replacement? Villa did that and left it late this season -- at one point relegation looked possible. And had they not signed Bent, it may have become reality.

So maybe Lerner isn't that great, but it's what he represents; SOMETHING. Our current owners do nothing. Invest nothing.

I also have those worries mate, i am actually certain we will get relegated within three seasons without David Moyes, he is worth 100s of millions to Everton in many ways, the board know this, he is essentially a cash cow for us.

If we were relegated, we wouldnt go into administration, there is to much value in the squad. We would sell the likes of Baines, Jags, Fellaini etc but selling say 5 member of our squad would have us in a healthy position - with possibly finance to reinvest and start again. When it comes to our debt you always have to remember that home grown players like Rodwell, Barckley, Osman, Hibbert have no value on the accounts. Selling these players would have us in the black easily. We are a lot better positioned to cope with relegation then most other clubs in the PL. Speaking hypothethicly of course. The likes of Villa would prob go into administration and it will be intresting to see what happens at Brum if they go down.

Borrowing to buy players is a fools errand, Villa, Pompey, WHU, Leeds it never realisticly works because you need to be able to gaurentee a return on your investment and the only way of doing that in regular gaurented CL football which can never be gaurenteed - City have dropped 200 mill to give it a whirl thats the marker, no other team can do that.

The only show in town for us, is infrastructure, im not against taking on more debt but for the right reasons. I wouldnt mind borrowing 170mill if it meant building a new 60,000 seater stadium. Arsenal have gaurenteed they will be a top club for the next 100 years by investing in the Emirates, which has catipulted them to one of the wealteist clubs in the world - this IMO is the only show in town for us, to progress. Looking for an owner to invest, provides short term gain, but our goals need to be more long term. Self sustainability is the key.

 

[RFUS]

Yes he scores goals but he's disloyal, seems to think he is better than he is and follows the money ask steve bruce. There must be a reason none of the 'big clubs' won't take him on if he's that good. Big fish small pond syndrome. ,

Loyalty is irrelevant if he performs whilst he's there and then goes for a good fee. Sunderland got plenty of goals out of him and they made a tidy profit; win win.

Whilst it's always nice to see players loving your club, it's a results game. I'd take quality over loyalty any day -- to a certain extent; we have plenty of loyalty, but we could do with a bit more quality!

I also have those worries mate, i actually certain we will get relgated within three seasons without David Moyes, he is worth 100s of millions to Everton in many ways, the board know this, he is essentially a cash cow for us.

If we were relegated, we wouldnt go into administration, their is to much value in the squad. There is to much value in the squad, yes we would sell the likes of Baines, Fellaini etc but selling say 5 member of our squad would have us in a healthy position - with possibly finance to reinvest and start again. When it comes to our debt you always have to remember that home growen players like Rodwell, Barckley, Osman, Hibbert haveno value on the accounts. Selling these players would have us in the black easily. We are a lot better positioned to cope with relegation then most other clubs in the the PL. The likes of Villa would prob go into administration and it will be intresting to see what happens at Brum if they go down.

Borrowing to buy players is a fools errand, Villa, Pompey, WHU, Leeds it never realisticly works because you need to be able to gaurentee a return on your investment and the only way of doing that in regular gaurented CL football which can never be gaurenteed - City have dropped 200 mill to give it whirl, no toher team can do that.

The only show in town for us, is infrastructure, im not against taking on more debt but for the right reasons. I wouldnt mind borrowing 170mill if it meant building a new 60,000 seater stadium. Arsenal have gaurenteed they will be a top club for the next 100 years by investing in the Emirates - this IMO is the only show in town for us, to progress. Looking for an owner to invest, provides short term gain, but our goals need to be more long term. like i say self sustainability in the key.

Interesting points mate.

Arsenal are certainly the model to envy, but we're not a global brand like them and I just can't see investment ever coming or a new stadium coming for a long while.

I sense Danny was right; we peaked with the FA cup final, and we're in a gradual state of decline.

 

[Jib in lad]

Moyes is going nowhere .

 

[Neiler]

Loyalty is irrelevant if he performs whilst he's there and then goes for a good fee. Sunderland got plenty of goals out of him and they made a tidy profit; win win.

Whilst it's always nice to see players loving your club, it's a results game. I'd take quality over loyalty any day -- to a certain extent; we have plenty of loyalty, but we could do with a bit more quality!



Interesting points mate.

Arsenal are certainly the model to envy, but we're not a global brand like them and I just can't see investment ever coming or a new stadium coming for a long while.

I sense Danny was right; we peaked with the FA cup final, and we're in a gradual state of decline.

Personaly i disagree mate, Arsenal are or rather were no bigger club then us - but a perfect example of what limits can be acheived, with a good manager and a realsitc financial model. The Emirates is the house that Wenger built, building a team and staying competitve while the club built a long terms strategy to grow its infrastructure. We have an equally good manager - to do something similar, if we could put a strategy in place to enable us to build a stadium our club would take of, i wouldnt be against taking on debt to do this.

Just my two sense but looking for a takeover just to sign players isnt the pot of gold, people imagine it to be in there frustration. Its all about a new stadium for me.

 

[davek]

Thats scary and harsh mate.

Villa in five years have gone from 0 debt to to over 110 mill. Their debt to turnover ratio in about 120% ours is 50% essentially they owe more then they can make.

They make about 80mill a year, we make about 80 mill a year - yet we havnt aquired 110 mill pound worth of debt in five years, have Villa been more successfull then us in that period in footballing terms or just signed more players? In that sense which is the better run club on and of the field.

That 110 mill where does it come from in five years its a bit of a myth that Learner ploughs money into Villa, hes taken on debt. They lost 37 mill this year to put that into perspective our total debt is 43 mill.

Villa's debt is anchored to Lerner himself - or an arm of his family's business, to be precise. That's more stable than Everton owing less to outside financial institutions who could call time at any moment they wish.

 

[Neiler]

Villa's debt is anchored to Lerner himself - or an arm of his family's business, to be precise. That's more stable than Everton owing less to outside financial institutions who could call time at any moment they wish.

On what planet does that work, all loans have set periods for repayment and legal contracts to ensure same. So to suggest that all of a sudden any financial institution or infact all will tomorow call in repayments - is extremely disingenuous, come on mate.

As for Villa, there has been a massive increase in the amount of debt taken on from financial institutions, i beleive also that some of the infrasturcural assets have been transfered to Learners company to pay down some of the promisery notes issued to Villa from Learners company, they still lost 37 mill last year. Imagine if some of Evertons assets were transfered to Bill Kenwright Ltd. I can see your post now.

Wages at Villa account for of 90% of thier turnover, they loose on average over 40 mill + a year, Learner has trasfered assets to his own company. Turnover to debt is more then 120%. They are facing into their worse financial year in beards. Ive heard you big up WHU, Pompey, Villa, Brum, Blackburn takeovers over the years mate to be honest time has been the great leveller here and speaks for itself really.

You can have Learner mate.

 

[Jamo Martinez]

I know. But all that will happen in the foreseeable future is that they'll sell Ashley Young and probably Downing, keep half the profits, reinvest the rest, get rid of deadwood high earners and flounder around 10th in the Premier League for the next five years.

For the third time, not minted, but not skint, and definitely not on the verge of financial meltdown. You seem to have a perverse desire to convince everyone Aston Villa are the next Leeds, and everyone who doesn't think so somehow think Villa are minted and about to win the league.

There's an area in between those two stances!

That's Matt for you. He's a bright and knowledgeable guy who weighs in with some superb arguments to refute things that no-one has actually claimed.

 

[davek]

On what planet does that work, all loans have set periods for repayment and legal contracts to ensure same. So to suggest that all of a sudden any financial institution or infact all will tomorow call in repayments - is extremely disingenuous, come on mate.

You must have a short memory mate, it was only last autumn that RBS were threatening that very action on Liverpool. Also there's the glaring example of West Ham's implosion under the Iclandic trolls!!

As for Villa, there has been a massive increase in the amount of debt taken on from financial institutions, i beleive also that some of the infrasturcural assets have been transfered to Learners company to pay down some of the promisery notes issued to Villa from Learners company, they still lost 37 mill last year. Imagine if some of Evertons assets were transfered to Bill Kenwright Ltd. I can see your post now.

The amount of external debt taken on is £20M - I suppose that is a 'massive increase' when it was formerly zero!

Villa's assets plundered by Lerner: I'd have to have more detail to comment there. Doesn't ring true to me like.

 

[Silas]

Personaly i disagree mate, Arsenal are or rather were no bigger club then us - but a perfect example of what limits can be acheived, with a good manager and a realsitc financial model. The Emirates is the house that Wenger built, building a team and staying competitve while the club built a long terms strategy to grow its infrastructure. We have an equally good manager - to do something similar, if we could put a strategy in place to enable us to build a stadium our club would take of, i wouldnt be against taking on debt to do this.

Just my two sense but looking for a takeover just to sign players isnt the pot of gold, people imagine it to be in there frustration. Its all about a new stadium for me.

I agree to a ,large extent, the stadium is a major factor with sensible investment in the playing squad enough to take us to the next level. The problem lies in the board...seemingly unable to address either problem.

 

[neonleon]

Personaly i disagree mate, Arsenal are or rather were no bigger club then us - but a perfect example of what limits can be acheived, with a good manager and a realsitc financial model. The Emirates is the house that Wenger built, building a team and staying competitve while the club built a long terms strategy to grow its infrastructure. We have an equally good manager - to do something similar, if we could put a strategy in place to enable us to build a stadium our club would take of, i wouldnt be against taking on debt to do this.

Just my two sense but looking for a takeover just to sign players isnt the pot of gold, people imagine it to be in there frustration. Its all about a new stadium for me.

I think we all know now that the Emirates wouldn't have been built were it not for them having good rail links and 27 rapid transit platforms.

 

[Matt Damon]

That's Matt for you. He's a bright and knowledgeable guy who weighs in with some superb arguments to refute things that no-one has actually claimed.

I haven't stated that Villa are the next Leeds (if they went down maybe).

What I have stated is that Villa are in a parlous state with more and more acruing debt (at SIX times the rate Everton is).

Thats now putting them under pressure BEFORE the new financial regs come in full force (we're in the monitoring period now)

Villa are under far more pressure financially than we are right now.

Plus Everton's business model can be fundamentally changed far easier than theirs can, due to higher debts and an already in place stadium that they cannot fill.


That. Is. The. Point.

This in no way condones Kenwright et al.

It puts the "Moyes to Villa" nonsense in its place.

 

[Neiler]

You must have a short memory mate, it was only last autumn that RBS were threatening that very action on Liverpool. Also there's the glaring example of West Ham's implosion under the Iclandic trolls
The amount of external debt taken on is £20M - I suppose that is a 'massive increase' when it was formerly zero!!.

Were either in breach of their repayment contract - ta da!

Villa's assets plundered by Lerner: I'd have to have more detail to comment there. Doesn't ring true to me like.

From Villas own accounts:

"Property worth £7.3m was transferred to a parent undertaking to wipe out credit notes."