I thought everyone was convinced Rodriguez has a fanny.
Current Affairs Laurel Hubbard
- Thread starter Blueclouds
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I thought everyone was convinced Rodriguez has a fanny.
GlosBlue
Player Valuation: £30m
Fixed
NilSatisOptimum
Player Valuation: £70m
Less likely to be a success, there is distinct disadvantages in being born a woman in many sports particular lower back and hips all to do with being designed for child birth. Mother nature hey!
Lord - this likely is stupid as hell
No. Transwomen are women. Women/Men are genders - constructs of society. They may or may not be genetically female.
A transboy that starts hormone therapy at or near puberty is physically going to develop male physiologic characteristics including muscle development.
I don't have the answer though. I think flatly across the board excluding trans-athletes is wrong. However, in situations like this, finding the right answer is difficult especially doing so while being sensitive to the community and an individuals right to privacy.
My opinion - I don't think a transwoman or transman should be competing if they are not going through hormone therapy, but where the line is I've no clue - age of initiation of hormone therapy, time in therapy, other physiologic parameters. It all gets personally invasive.
We're also ignoring the fact that it is not as simple as male and female. People can be intersexed which effects hormones and thus physical development. Traditionally we have considered sex as binary, but in reality it is a spectrum.
Definitely needs discussion with sport governing bodies along with people from the trans community. I hope folks smarter than me can come up with reasonable answers.
No. The definition of woman is "adult human female". The definition of female is a person bearing two XX chromosomes in the cell nuclei.
Trans women are trans women. There's a reason the term trans women exists, because the identifier trans is necessary.
Furey1878
Player Valuation: £70m
These are all great considerations to have, especially as we try and make the world as inclusive as we can.
But at the end of the day for me, with Trans and intersex, often the baby is thrown out with the bathwater in which changes that affect women are forced by very small proportion of the population. Not saying that Trans and intersex people should be ignored because they aren't a significant enough proportion of the population, but in big events such as the Olympics surely common sense has to prevail and you make it as fair as you can for the most people.
I think I'm more aligned with @Tubey to be honest with you, mate. I'm all for anyone identifying their gender as what they feel it should be, and as much as I agree that traditional male/female gender norms are a construct of society, a lot of people are taking that to mean that biological sex and all of it's implications to you as a person no longer exist when they clearly always will. Not necessarily saying you believe this btw, just getting my thoughts down.
Obviously I'm coming from this from the POV of a cis-gender heterosexual male, I can't imagine what it's like to feel like you have been born into the sex isn't the same as the gender you feel you are - but at the same time people are too label obsessed with gender imo. Androgynous pop figures and feminists have eschewed traditional gender norms for years and years now but it's only in the last 10 years or so that everything has to be distinctly labelled.
Basically, I agree with your thoughts on how we can better make judgement calls on this in sport, however I feel "Transwomen are women" has become a blanket shutdown for anything related to trans-rights now without considering the full implications, especially with regards to Women's rights.
It always comes down to people not understanding the difference between sex and gender, or placing far too much importance on one over the other.
In terms of gender, trans women are women makes sense, because as a purely societal identifier, with no other consequences, it works. If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
However, legal underpinnings are defined by sex. Biological sex is therefore critically important, and if you ignore that and apply blanket terms like 'trans women are women' then it can have very grave consequences, as we're seeing here in sport. There ARE genetic sex differences between men and women, so 'trans women are women' is obviously a flat out lie.
coollino
Player Valuation: £80m
Only if the person wants that trans identification.
Women is a cultural definition that related to sociality roles, expression of identity, etc. - it has nothing to do with what is or isn't in someone's pants or genes. There are a lot of "women" that do not have XX chromosomes. They could have XY, XXY, XXYY, XXXY and other variations.
Sex is not scientifically binary. We have made it so based on external characteristics.
Hmmm... there's my ignorance showing. There are official guidelines.
Statement of the Stockholm consensus on sex reassignment in sport
IOC Consensus Meeting on Sex Reassignment and Hyperandrogenism November 2015
1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.
2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:
2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nanomoles per litre (10 nmol/L) for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women’s competition).
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competitions will be suspended for 12 months.
Some organizations us 5 nmol/L cut off - and looks to be the trend
Statement of the Stockholm consensus on sex reassignment in sport
IOC Consensus Meeting on Sex Reassignment and Hyperandrogenism November 2015
1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.
2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:
2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nanomoles per litre (10 nmol/L) for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women’s competition).
2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competitions will be suspended for 12 months.
Some organizations us 5 nmol/L cut off - and looks to be the trend
zzr45
#MURDERINGSCUM
I really miss 2006 when this would have been the plot of a really crap comedy movie rather than the height of seriousness.
In all honesty though, if a person has gone through puberty as a male then for all intents and purposes going to have an advantage on women (not all) when it comes to speed, strength, endurance-type events. (Presuming they are trained etc). Testosterone is a poor marker really.
In all honesty though, if a person has gone through puberty as a male then for all intents and purposes going to have an advantage on women (not all) when it comes to speed, strength, endurance-type events. (Presuming they are trained etc). Testosterone is a poor marker really.
Oh God not this 
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
She’s a woman...so she should compete. It may not be fair, but life isn’t anyway because some are taller, stronger faster, so it’s never an equal competition anyway. Weightlifting in particular should be decided by the multiple of the competitors body weight that can be lifted...now that would make it fair, and some small thin lass might actually win....
Sex is scientifically binary. What you are describing is developmental sexual disorders, but it doesn't matter - if you have a Y chromosome, you are male. You can be born XXY, Klinefelter's, doesn't matter, you're male. There are only two sex cells that exist - X and Y. There isn't a third sex cell, so there's no sex spectrum; sex is binary, scientifically, indisputably. There is no such thing as a true hermaphrodite, because it's completely impossible.
You are parroting nonsense catchphrases. "We" have made nothing; there's a difference between societal constructs and scientific fact.
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