Current Affairs Laurel Hubbard

[Tubey]

At the end of the day if some fella wants to walk around in knickers and a dress and call himself Judie, thats cool, but hes still a fella.

Haha indeed. Gender vs. Sex summed up neatly.

Anyone can identify as anything they want societally, as long as law doesn't actually make them that thing legally.

I'm all for infinite genders, but there's only two sexes. The amount of people who confuse intersex/disorders with a sex spectrum is staggering.

 

[nsno-chris]

As men age and testosterone levels drop, there are resulting changes in musculature. Just ask some of the older gents on here.
Similar effects if you give antiandrogens - muscle mass and strength decrease.

I’m sorry but it’s not just testosterone that gives her the benefit. As a male, going through male puberty she would have increased bone density, cardiovascular function, body composition and muscle mass. Male puberty vs female pubert increase these functions by around 30%; the testosterone suppression will reduce her overall endurance by around 5-10%, hence her drop of lift (300kg+ as a male competitor to around 285kg as a female).

For it to be totally fair the therapy would have needed to be conducted to stop puberty.

There’s no doubt she has an advantage over some other competitors in the field, she’s still clearly not good enough to win however.

 

[wainy]

Oh didn't you know? Give Mike Tyson testosterone reducing drugs for two years and he'd look like Kylie Jenner.

Absolutely bizarre to me that people are happy for this to happen, it’s scary.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/us...ter-breaks-record/DVODNJX73JZ5FNCYJO53DDYVP4/
Fair?

 

[peteblue]

Pete, you rarely surprise me, but your angle on this has completely caught me on the back foot

I am a complex person......

 

[JMT]

If people think it's acceptable then we might as well just give up on sports entirely, I'm not saying they can't compete it just needs to happen in an entirely separate category to women, The biological advantages are far too great to ignore.

 

[Furey1878]

If people think it's acceptable then we might as well just give up on sports entirely, I'm not saying they can't compete it just needs to happen in an entirely separate category to women, The biological advantages are far too great to ignore.

Yeah I've been thinking something similar to this but then where does one draw the line in a trans-category? Is it fair to not integrate trans and cis in some way in sport?

Very tough one, though in this case Laurel has had all the genetic benefits of being biologically male all her life. The fact that she's going in as a 43 says it all really.

 

[arch stanton]

You aren't disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with scientific fact.

Everything I've just said is as true as saying the earth isn't flat. If your view had any scientific merit, it'd then be a debate and I wouldn't be able to just say "no". But you are saying absolutes like 'trans women are women' and 'sex isn't scientifically binary' - they are objectively, provably false statements.

I understand fully where your view comes from - a position of not wanting to hurt feelings, a position where societal reality is of paramount importance and 'technicalities' shouldn't get in the way of it.

But what you don't understand is the consequence of that. The Equality Act 2010, for instance, sees the concept of sex underpinning women's rights. If you dilute what 'sex' means, you utterly destroy the foundations of that. It's suddenly a castle built on sand.

All I can say is it's possible to acknowledge the scientific reality of biological sex, understand women's rights are underpinned by biological sex and want to progress trans rights. You aren't an automatic 'TERF' if you say trans women aren't women.

eh, what do you mean the earth isn't flat..?

 

[arch stanton]

there was a really good discussion on The Moral Maze about this on R4 last night. I was an interested and confused bystander.

 

[Tubey]

Yeah I've been thinking something similar to this but then where does one draw the line in a trans-category? Is it fair to not integrate trans and cis in some way in sport?

Very tough one, though in this case Laurel has had all the genetic benefits of being biologically male all her life. The fact that she's going in as a 43 says it all really.

To be blunt, yes. It's completely fair not to integrate trans athletes into the sports of the opposite sex.

We already do it. We don't allow men to compete in women's only sport and vice versa. Nothing needs to change.

It really is quite simple if people just had the balls to use common sense. You either distinguish by sex or you don't - and if you don't, you open the door for the equivalent of a transgender Lomachenko caving the head in of Katie Taylor and a transgender Jonah Lomu mowing over female rugby teams.

 

[JMT]

Yeah I've been thinking something similar to this but then where does one draw the line in a trans-category? Is it fair to not integrate trans and cis in some way in sport?

Very tough one, though in this case Laurel has had all the genetic benefits of being biologically male all her life. The fact that she's going in as a 43 says it all really.

It depends on the sport really, Would a trans person have an advantage in something like hockey? I wouldn't say they would, Some should definitely be off limits.

 

[coollino]

New tattoo idea

I can only read that in a Brass Eye Chris Morris style voice.

 

[grandjoeblue]

It depends on the sport really, Would a trans person have an advantage in something like hockey? I wouldn't say they would, Some should definitely be off limits.

I don't have a clue about the trans aspect I think it depends on whether they still have a physical advantage but generally men beat women in every sport. Didn't a local u15 mens side beat Arsenal ladies? 800th male ranked tennis players have beat Serena Williams. In running and cycling a relatively competitive male club runner can beat Olympic level women at most distances.

 

[coollino]

Yeah I've been thinking something similar to this but then where does one draw the line in a trans-category? Is it fair to not integrate trans and cis in some way in sport?

Very tough one, though in this case Laurel has had all the genetic benefits of being biologically male all her life. The fact that she's going in as a 43 says it all really.

The problem with a trans category, other than there are probably not enough people in it, is there will probably be gradients and these just become a corrupt mess - like the Paralympics.

It is a really difficult one as they shouldn't be exempt from professional sport because they are trans but I see how it can be very unfair.

 

[Tubey]

eh, what do you mean the earth isn't flat..?

'sake what a place for a typo hahaha

 

[arch stanton]

there was a really good discussion on The Moral Maze about this on R4 last night. I was an interested and ever so slightly confused bystander.