Kenwright and investment

[Nebbiolo]

Nailed on.

Too many Evertonians think that they know what's better for our club than the people running it.

Pisses me off to be frank.

Agreed that some are ridiculous, Bill, but not at GOT. Try looking at some of the characters on NSNO or worse, Kipper. On this site, things are usually kept in perspective.

The thing is, many of those supporters that voice their concerns are presently spending vast amounts of their income on keeping the club afloat. I think that gives them the right to have a say.

 

[McBain]

what a load of patronising [Poor language removed] - regardless of what you think, people should post their opinions as regards the club freely.

And I'm not allowed to say what I want also??

I may live thousands of miles away but I might live next door to Goodison and still be that far away from what really, actually goes on. In real life.

My Points:

1. You have no idea what really goes on. If you'd like to, get a job at the club and do it the way everyone else has. Or buy it. Just stop whinging like babies.

2. Stop constantly crying about 'investment'. Its embarrassing. "Oh but I've been lied to" - Here's some kleenex - suck it up.

And to reiterate, its a general thing, no pointing at any one person Dennis. I have no idea why you think Kenwright is doing such an 'awful' job. Fifth in the hardest league in the world and Cup Finalists, regenerating squad, breaking the transfer record, pushing the club forward? Sorry if that's not good enough for you. I'm sure City will do the treble this year, go support them.

 

[Goat]

And I'm not allowed to say what I want also??
Yes, but you havent really said anything, basically you have just told "us" to stop moaning.
I may live thousands of miles away but I might live next door to Goodison and still be that far away from what really, actually goes on. In real life.Who does, thats why we are discussing it, pooling our knowledge in a way.

My Points:

1. You have no idea what really goes on. If you'd like to, get a job at the club Wasnt aware they were looking for anybodyand do it the way everyone else has. Or buy it.Yet again, I dont have the money needed to buy the club, how many times do you need the same question answered? Just stop whinging like babies.No, thanks.

2. Stop constantly crying about 'investment'.Even Bill says we need investment. Its embarrassing. "Oh but I've been lied to"We have, over and over again - Here's some kleenex - suck it up.Good 1.

And to reiterate, its a general thing, no pointing at any one person Dennis. I have no idea why you think Kenwright is doing such an 'awful' job. Fifth in the hardest league in the world and Cup Finalists, regenerating squad, breaking the transfer record, pushing the club forward?The manager has done all this Sorry if that's not good enough for you.No, its not, I want more, if your happy with being second rate, great, go and support Newcastle. I'm sure City will do the treble this year, go support them.They wont.

Next.

 

[McBain]

Next.

Sorry what?

Ok, tis my point is all. Probably didnt need answering mate...

 

[Goat]

Infact, everything is great.

 

[McBain]

Infact, everything is great.

It is. Don't be corrupted by bad people on other sites.

Looking at you Tony Marsh. And Davek.

 

[Screech]

Nailed on.

Too many Evertonians think that they know what's better for our club than the people running it.

Pisses me off to be frank.

I reckon Kenwrights moved to Texas

 

[davek]

Well Goat said "His poodle Estone yapped that nothing would be "off the table" and then a few minutes/hours later The big Dog himself refused point blank to answer a question."

which to me read more like a complaint that a question wasn't answered even though Goat felt it should have been. His other points (such as "what share price is he protecting") suggest to me a problem with not answering the question, rather than (or as well as) the retort used.

I agree that the transcript looks bad. I'd like to reserve judgement until I saw the full context for myself, but if Kenwright did act like that then he shouldn't have.

However, I think Goat did have an issue with the question not being answered based on the tone of his post, and I also have an issue with Kenwright being guilty until proven innocent, in terms of an selectively edited transcript being treated as a gospel interpretation of events.

Anyone who thinks Bill's terse and facetious manner this week with small shareholders is a forgiveable one off is kidding themselves. From the 2004 AGM fielding questions about Rooney's departure:

Bill Kenwright: “It was true that Michael Dunford had shares in ProActive.”
Colm Kavanagh: “He was a founding shareholder.”
Bill Kenwright: “Was he? When the Board found out we instantly said get rid of those shares.”
Colm Kavanagh: “You still deal with Mr. Stretford. Peter Degn was a prime example – we got sold a dud.”
Bill Kenwright: “Yes, don’t disagree (about Degn).”
Colm Kavanagh: “There’s a massive court case coming up……..”
Bill Kenwright: “I’m not disagreeing with you.”
Colm Kavanagh: “Are you going to stop dealing with Paul Stretford and his company?”
Bill Kenwright: “Just hold on. Have we done any dealings with Paul Stretford in the last year?”
Colm Kavanagh: “We’ve had shareholders on the playing staff.”
Bill Kenwright: “Have we had shareholders on the playing staff? Right!”
Colm Kavanagh: “You’re supposed to know…”
Bill Kenwright: “I’m sorry guys, I’m not supposed to know everything. I’d like to but I’m not.”
Colm Kavanagh: “You didn’t know your own CEO had 40,000 shares?”
Bill Kenwright: “I didn’t till I found out.”
Colm Kavanagh: “Four years ago?”
Bill Kenwright: “No.”


...and on the subject of Trevor Birch's departure as CEO after weeks in the job:


Unknown: “Question, Mr. Chairman: one name has not been mentioned, in the age of transparency – perhaps you could tell us what happened to the previous chief executive who vanished overnight. Trevor Birch is his name in case you’ve forgotten. What happened?”

Bill Kenwright: “What happened with Trevor?”

Unknown: “Yes.”

Bill Kenwright: “He left the football club after seven weeks. I became chairman on the day he became chief executive. I’m not going to go into the private reasons why he left.”

Unknown: “Why not?”

Bill Kenwright: “Because I’m not going to.”
Unknown: “Transparency?”

Bill Kenwright: “It’s not transparency that Trevor desires.”

Unknown: “He’s been silent.”

Bill Kenwright: “He has indeed and he’s going to remain silent.”

Unknown: “Is that part of the deal?”

Bill Kenwright: “And he’s going to remain silent.”
Unknown: “But you won’t tell us why?”

Bill Kenwright: “I will not.”

Unknown: “Perhaps when this chief executive goes you’ll tell us why?”

Bill Kenwright: “Thank you.”
Unknown: “No answer I see.”

Bill Kenwright: “No, you got a perfectly good answer. I’m not going to tell you.”


EGM Transcript 2004

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of sitting on information you can easily see why many see him as a dead loss in the capacity of the position he holds. Not exactly a statesman it might be suggested.

 

[chicoazul]

Surely any fan would want is best for the club?

DEFO. In that case behind the club then instead of joining in the paranoid fantasists hanging around cyberworld getting all furious about a fella who's a good blue and put everything on the line to take over from Peter Johnson. Remember him, remember how sh*te we were?

You wouldnt believe we've just finished fifth, reached our first final for beards, have broke our transfer record pretty much every year for the last four seasons and by all accounts are a club that seemingly are going places.

Is right, we're a bit boss again - and we'll get better as Moyes stays around. Wait there, the guy who hired Moyes and stuck by him when probably these same blues were screaming for his head is Kenwright. Sh*t: he's not that after all.

Want to sell our soul to some Arabs and lose our identity, become a virtual other Premiership franchise but sign 50m player whilst acting like proper blerts? Count me out.

If was the boss of the club, seriously reading this I'd tell you to go shove it.

If you knew what running a club was like, you'd all be Chairmen, but you're not.

Reading your posts about 'Such and such has this and such and such does that' is really embarrassing. Like kids with ice-cream.

If your so great at running footy clubs, I'd suggest you stand up and run for Chairman yourself. Do you really have any idea what selling a whole club to people who usually deal in other industries entails? Do you think Moyes buys players without running the absolute strictest of rules over everyone of them? Do you think if the right offer came in and everybody was happy, and the CLUB benefited the most it wouldn't happen?

You would all sacrifice the work they've done so far and spend ludicrous amounts on the Bellamy's of the game. Do you want 9 strikers all on a hundred grand a week sitting around playing cards hoping they get a run out? Get a grip. Stop thinking Kenwright is some megalomaniacal dictator atop piles of cash throwing grapes at his subjects.

You want to be Pompey, Villa or City? Or would you rather be Everton and get the basics right before lunacy steps in. Why do you think they are better than us? Your deluded by modern commercialism, blinded by shiny overpriced luxuries at the expense of your own judgment. You think the club is in such serious trouble why don't you go and work for Everton, work your way into a position on the board and get to have a legitimate say in the way the Club is run? Too much like hard work. You wanted handed on a silver platter from a Butler who earns more than an astronaut.

In the words of a famous and well respected Antipodean journalist, SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.

WE are the club the rest want to be like, not the other way around.

And I'm not allowed to say what I want also??

I may live thousands of miles away but I might live next door to Goodison and still be that far away from what really, actually goes on. In real life.

My Points:

1. You have no idea what really goes on. If you'd like to, get a job at the club and do it the way everyone else has. Or buy it. Just stop whinging like babies.

2. Stop constantly crying about 'investment'. Its embarrassing. "Oh but I've been lied to" - Here's some kleenex - suck it up.

And to reiterate, its a general thing, no pointing at any one person Dennis. I have no idea why you think Kenwright is doing such an 'awful' job. Fifth in the hardest league in the world and Cup Finalists, regenerating squad, breaking the transfer record, pushing the club forward? Sorry if that's not good enough for you. I'm sure City will do the treble this year, go support them.

These two posts are some of the rightest things wrote on here. Bravo Bainer, Bravo.




* although I've quoted Goat's posts its a sort of aimed at the other paranoiders, possibly except Davek who's mostly ace aswell. And Uncle Stevens, and Jarvis.

A F IT. DO ONE KENWRONG.


Message ends/

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

And I'm not allowed to say what I want also??

I may live thousands of miles away but I might live next door to Goodison and still be that far away from what really, actually goes on. In real life.

My Points:

1. You have no idea what really goes on. If you'd like to, get a job at the club and do it the way everyone else has. Or buy it. Just stop whinging like babies.

2. Stop constantly crying about 'investment'. Its embarrassing. "Oh but I've been lied to" - Here's some kleenex - suck it up.

And to reiterate, its a general thing, no pointing at any one person Dennis. I have no idea why you think Kenwright is doing such an 'awful' job. Fifth in the hardest league in the world and Cup Finalists, regenerating squad, breaking the transfer record, pushing the club forward? Sorry if that's not good enough for you. I'm sure City will do the treble this year, go support them.

Of course you can say whatever you like, but it does seem a tad hypocritical when you criticise others for doing just that. Your point is much better made when you address the gripes people may have rather than attack people for expressing them & telling them to go support another club.

You're quite right we have very little idea what really goes on, people are getting a few pieces of the jigsaw & guessing as to what the whole picture may be - that's why there's so much room for disagreement amongst Evertonians.

I'm not too sure what you mean about getting a job at the club - do you think all the employees know what's really happening? They'll just probably have a few more pieces than the rest of us, but the "insider information" we all see on these forums is often as inaccurate as the tripe dished up in the press.

I'm sure most blues would buy the club if they had the money to do so & still enough left over to then do something with the club, unfortunately Kenwright didn't really even have the former, let alone the latter. Was he brave, foolish or selfish? It probably depends on your personal perspective.

I have no idea why you think I think Kenwright is doing such an 'awful' job or that I whinge about "investment", etc. Kenwright isn't above criticism, but I don't think he should be demonised either. The club does seem in a bit of a hiatus, presumably pending the resolution of DK, whether a change of ownership or just changes amongst the ownership is what the club needs I can't pretend to know, but my feeling is that some change(s) might well be healthy for the club's future well-being.

Last season was another good one but, although it was good as far as it went, ultimately it's not good enough for me or you or the club. If people believe that a season like the one we've just experienced is about as good as it can get for Everton, that seems awfully sad to me. I have to believe that it's another step forward along the track to achieveing real, & hopefully lasting, success. My impression is that Moyes seems to have a similar viewpoint - he's doing a grand job but we ain't won nothing yet. I like to think all Evertonians feel the same way, perhaps that manifests itself in all sorts of ways on these forums.

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

That Moyes signed on for 5 more years (at least/so far) ought to be an indication that he finally (very finally) got the promises he was after. There is no way on gods green earth he would have signed up to manage but at the same time not be allowed to compete. No we are not going to sign Tevez + Adebayor + Santa Cruz + Barry + whoever else all in one summer, but before city did it, who else saw such vast purchases? Real Madrid have been throwing worse money after bad every summer since as long as the sun rose in the morning and set in the evening. Newcastle went down a similar route (although scaled down) and became the poor mans Galacticos.
Besides the Glazers and Abram, which big spenders have actually seen success? Arsenal have an entity playing games at boardroom level with progressive share purchases, when did he come on board? when did they last win something? Spurs throw pots of cash around like wine at a bar mitzvah, they are doing stunningly. There was this man once that got to manage a few clubs, one notable club was Nottingham Forest - the manager was Brian Clough. Maybe I am being naive but can a new perspective and fresh drive and a commitment to hard work be the catalyst that turns a club around and changes them from also rans into contenders. I would like Moyes to be for Everton what Clough was to Forest. Dedicated, Honest, Firm and Fair.
Lets back the manager and his decision to stay with us, he is no mug and I believe knows what he wants and is prepared to work for it for Everton.

 

[DENNIS STEVENS]

That Moyes signed on for 5 more years (at least/so far) ought to be an indication that he finally (very finally) got the promises he was after. There is no way on gods green earth he would have signed up to manage but at the same time not be allowed to compete. No we are not going to sign Tevez + Adebayor + Santa Cruz + Barry + whoever else all in one summer, but before city did it, who else saw such vast purchases? Real Madrid have been throwing worse money after bad every summer since as long as the sun rose in the morning and set in the evening. Newcastle went down a similar route (although scaled down) and became the poor mans Galacticos.
Besides the Glazers and Abram, which big spenders have actually seen success? Arsenal have an entity playing games at boardroom level with progressive share purchases, when did he come on board? when did they last win something? Spurs throw pots of cash around like wine at a bar mitzvah, they are doing stunningly. There was this man once that got to manage a few clubs, one notable club was Nottingham Forest - the manager was Brian Clough. Maybe I am being naive but can a new perspective and fresh drive and a commitment to hard work be the catalyst that turns a club around and changes them from also rans into contenders. I would like Moyes to be for Everton what Clough was to Forest. Dedicated, Honest, Firm and Fair.
Lets back the manager and his decision to stay with us, he is no mug and I believe knows what he wants and is prepared to work for it for Everton.

Interesting post, I particularly agree with your last sentence.

 

[TX Bill]

I cant be chairman, I dont have enough money. So thus your arguement is weak.



And the Evertonians that think the club are doing a good job piss me off. I guess thats why forums work, because people have different views.

Here's the main problem that you in the anti-Kenwright brigade can't seem to get your heads around and this is a fact.

The fact is that not one of you can show any evidence whatsoever that Bill Kenwright has turned down investment in Everton Football Club.

None.

You continually slate him on here because investors have come in for other clubs so you try and put two and two together and say "Well surely we're better than these clubs so it must mean that we've had the same opportunities presented to us."

Unfortunately, that can't be said much less proven.

It's nothing but faulty reasoning that leads many to think that Kenwright is just screwing us over time and time again.

Until there is PROOF that a billionaire or other wealthy individual has attempted to put funds into our club and been denied, you can save your breath and instead of trying to tear your club down under the guise of "We want what's best for our club," try building it up.

If it's evident that the club has failed in some area (Kirkby could be considered here), then it's REASONABLE to believe that the club should be asked the hard questions.

But this bullshit about Kenwright turning investment down in the club has got to stop.

Comprende?

 

[SuitsBlueX2]

Here's the main problem that you in the anti-Kenwright brigade can't seem to get your heads around and this is a fact.

The fact is that not one of you can show any evidence whatsoever that Bill Kenwright has turned down investment in Everton Football Club.

None.

You continually slate him on here because investors have come in for other clubs so you try and put two and two together and say "Well surely we're better than these clubs so it must mean that we've had the same opportunities presented to us."

Unfortunately, that can't be said much less proven.

It's nothing but faulty reasoning that leads many to think that Kenwright is just screwing us over time and time again.

Until there is PROOF that a billionaire or other wealthy individual has attempted to put funds into our club and been denied, you can save your breath and instead of trying to tear your club down under the guise of "We want what's best for our club," try building it up.

If it's evident that the club has failed in some area (Kirkby could be considered here), then it's REASONABLE to believe that the club should be asked the hard questions.

But this bullshit about Kenwright turning investment down in the club has got to stop.

Comprende?

I agree with 99.99 percent of that apart from the clear swear, cos that is well naughty. Though I understand and respect how the author was driven to such language by the relentless torrent of Anti chairman, Anti progress, Anti yes voter miosis that has slowly strangled the positive outlook, pro Kirkby, pro Kenwright forum members on every Everton forum throughout the world.

 

[McBain]

Of course you can say whatever you like, but it does seem a tad hypocritical when you criticise others for doing just that. Your point is much better made when you address the gripes people may have rather than attack people for expressing them & telling them to go support another club.

You're quite right we have very little idea what really goes on, people are getting a few pieces of the jigsaw & guessing as to what the whole picture may be - that's why there's so much room for disagreement amongst Evertonians.

I'm not too sure what you mean about getting a job at the club - do you think all the employees know what's really happening? They'll just probably have a few more pieces than the rest of us, but the "insider information" we all see on these forums is often as inaccurate as the tripe dished up in the press.

I'm sure most blues would buy the club if they had the money to do so & still enough left over to then do something with the club, unfortunately Kenwright didn't really even have the former, let alone the latter. Was he brave, foolish or selfish? It probably depends on your personal perspective.

I have no idea why you think I think Kenwright is doing such an 'awful' job or that I whinge about "investment", etc. Kenwright isn't above criticism, but I don't think he should be demonised either. The club does seem in a bit of a hiatus, presumably pending the resolution of DK, whether a change of ownership or just changes amongst the ownership is what the club needs I can't pretend to know, but my feeling is that some change(s) might well be healthy for the club's future well-being.

Last season was another good one but, although it was good as far as it went, ultimately it's not good enough for me or you or the club. If people believe that a season like the one we've just experienced is about as good as it can get for Everton, that seems awfully sad to me. I have to believe that it's another step forward along the track to achieveing real, & hopefully lasting, success. My impression is that Moyes seems to have a similar viewpoint - he's doing a grand job but we ain't won nothing yet. I like to think all Evertonians feel the same way, perhaps that manifests itself in all sorts of ways on these forums.

Great points and very well written.

We all do get frustrated and it manifests itself in different ways. There are people who think Kenwright is bad for not answering their questions, or not knowing 100% of the story. Or not divulging information about certain things. Self proclaimed do-gooders could ultimately do more harm to the club than good. That's why he's the Boss. He protects us from ourselves. If he's corrupt, a power hungry meglomaniac, then lets give him the boot. That's democracy. Just feels like some people are constantly trying to undermine the top brass, and let's face it, will they ever be happy? I think not.